Two Baskets Stolen From Crivaro!!!

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Postby grodney » Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:29 am

How are they being stolen? Where is the vulnerability? Over the years, I have heard *lots* of techniques.

Do you need to move the baskets (from sleeve to sleeve, or to seasonally or occasionally remove)? If not, you can make them very secure. After that, they become less secure by varying degrees.

So I think I'm saying, define the requirements first, then talk about maxiumum security while still meeting those requirements.
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Postby SpikeHyzer » Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:34 am

This may sound far fetched, but there are always RFID tags. I'm not sure how cost effective this is, but a quick google search brought up the following link. Now...I have slim to no knowledge of the rfid world, so take it for what it's worth.

Reusuable RFID Tags
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Postby 10up » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:46 am

I don't know how far fetched it is. It's basically the cheapest form of valid protection. I don't think the question can be defined as "how do we make baskets anti-theft" because we don't have the resources to do so. We live in a world where a simple lock and chain, regardless of the quality, is not sufficient protection. Nor is having concreted sleeves, welded poles, or any other concoction of security measures. Most of the parks are too isolated and vulnerable because that's their purpose. To be "out of the way" places. So any hick with a toe-hitch, some bolt cutters, and a shovel will eventually be able to crack it.

So the question to me, which Joe has elluded to, isn't anti-theft, it's recoverability. RFID tags are proven, fairly inexpensive, and almost the most important thing to me is, we will catch the douchebag that has it.
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Postby irban » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:52 am

Let's booby trap them. Weren't you a demo expert in Iraq Dan? Or was it a cook?
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Postby 10up » Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:04 pm

Cav Scout/Sniper, that's why I want the RFID tags... just get me within 1k.
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Postby SpikeHyzer » Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:19 pm

I need to get some thin rfid tags for my discs so I can find them in the shule.
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Postby Single L » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:01 pm

RFID Tags are the tags that come on items at Wal-Mart. These tag contain data about product and give it Identification, they do not use GPS data logging. The frequency they give out is used by readers (the things you walk through at Wal-Mart) to read these tags.

GPS Data Pushers (they "push" data to a server at regular intervals) that give you real time locations via internet, cost between $400 and $2000. They are what they put on vehicles and they require a power source.
Not very cost effective option, plus the current solutions are very bulky and would not hide well inside the Pole.
Last edited by Single L on Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby actifed » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:06 pm

RFID is neat and all, but only useful to us if we get within a few hundred feet. I was thinking of some kind of marking that would be hard to get off.
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Postby SpikeHyzer » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:20 pm

Just marking the basket I don't think will be enough. You can sand off engraving...and you can paint over any sort of color mark.
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Postby 10up » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:29 pm

venomous snakes stashed inside of the pole, so when you pull it out... BAM!

they will require food though, so everytime somebody plays the course, just drop a mouse in there for them.
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Postby irban » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:58 pm

Sounds to me like stopping them from being taken in the first place is the best solution. To that end, why don't we follow Rodney's advice and do a little analysis.

Decide what the main vulnerabilities are by determining how all of our baskets have been stolen. (broke or cut the lock, pulled out cement and all, cut off at the base, etc.) Then decide what you can live with as a solution.

A good start would be to think through all of the ones that have gone missing. Anyone? Or should we not advertise the methods on the board? Maybe we could e-mail them all to Red or Actifed to collate and bring to the next meeting as an agenda item.

This doesn't have to be limited to the Des Moines area. The more data the better.
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Postby sorearm » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:28 pm

Was just the "basket"portion of the baskets taken at Crivaro? It looked like the poles were still there when I drove by the other day. These were installed by the city workers also right? Not that they could have done anything differently but???....are most of them welded to the poles?
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Postby 10up » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:39 pm

Brian should know alot about being "welded to the pole". :lol:


Sorry, I couldn't let that one slide, we now return you to your regularly scheduled topic.
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Postby GDL17921 » Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:15 pm

I believe that the assembly is only a couple screws for the basket and the top to the pole. We had a couple baskets stolen this way back in the QC as well. Just cut/unscrew the bolts, lift off the pole, and off they went.

The city could/should have insurance on their investment, some of the baskets stolen that were purchased by some of the P&R dept's in the QC were replaced with insurance money. I'm not sure about the cost for this.
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Postby grodney » Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:42 am

Pipe cut at the ground? Fill the pipe with concrete. Does anybody really cut the whole pipe anyway?

Bolts cut/broken, chains and basket slipped off the pole? Weld chain assembly and basket to the pole. Alternatively, I've heard of an epoxy(?) caulk-like stuff that is cost-effective, easy to apply, and holds essentially like a weld.

Cement base dug out? Use more cement. Or, more effectively, before putting cement in the hole, drive rebar diagonally into the sides of the hole.

Lock cut? Use more effective locks. None are impervious, but the vending locks we used for years at Gview, Walnut, Southwoods seem to be pretty good. I forget where I ordered them, but they were very cost-effective.

Tab on locking collar cut, pole slipped out of sleeve? First, this is difficult to do, so hopefully it's not much of a problem. The only defense I can think of: Bond (epoxy or weld) the pole to the sleeve (if you never need to take the pole out of the sleeve); or, reinforce the tab itself.

What other methods of theft are there?
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