This explains a lot.

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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby irban » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:50 am

irban wrote:
IHearChains wrote:
irban wrote:Oh, and big pharma will continue to develop drugs, even for less than obscene profits.


If there is less profit in it, will they develop more drugs, or fewer drugs?

If we can't afford the drugs does it matter? The threat of fewer jobs, less innovation, etc. is raised whenever an attempt is made to reign in corporate excess. The point is to balance the good of the few with the good of the many. For instance big oil would love the EPA to go away. And if it did, energy would likely be cheaper. But what are the tradeoffs, now and in the future?

Also, not all profit spurs innovation. Monopoly's are inherently more profitable, but stifle innovation. One of the reasons for anti-trust laws.
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby tufluk » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:56 am

Bugslayer wrote:Should we call what the GOP is doing a One Hatey, do you now hate the ideas because he is democratic or because he is black? If so, should we refer to what the GOP is doing as Blacktracking? Maybe we should just call it the Kenyan Boomerang?


In the mind of a lib, does ANYONE do ANYTHING in this whole, wide world that isn't motivated by race/racism?

From Wikipedia: Psychological projection was conceptualized by Sigmund Freud in the 1890s as a defense mechanism in which a person unconsciously rejects his or her own unacceptable attributes by ascribing them to objects or persons in the outside world.[1] For example, a person who is rude may accuse other people of being rude.
Or racist?????

And I don't mean Bug.

It's lazy, it's ineffective. It is just like calling wolf. Do it enough times and people cease to listen.

Yelling racism every time diminishes the seriousness of the charge.

Never chalk up to malice that which can be explained by stupidity. Me
Last edited by tufluk on Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby MDR_3000 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:04 am

Racist.
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby irban » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:42 am

tufluk wrote:From Wikipedia: Psychological projection was conceptualized by Sigmund Freud in the 1890s

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby 10up » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:42 pm

it's like he doesn't realize he is the one actually making the inflammatory comments.

racists are stupid too, asshole. They aren't mutually exclusive.
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby IHearChains » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:02 pm

irban wrote:
irban wrote:
IHearChains wrote:
If there is less profit in it, will they develop more drugs, or fewer drugs?

If we can't afford the drugs does it matter? The threat of fewer jobs, less innovation, etc. is raised whenever an attempt is made to reign in corporate excess. The point is to balance the good of the few with the good of the many. For instance big oil would love the EPA to go away. And if it did, energy would likely be cheaper. But what are the tradeoffs, now and in the future?

Also, not all profit spurs innovation. Monopoly's are inherently more profitable, but stifle innovation. One of the reasons for anti-trust laws.



There are highly intensive regulatory barriers (as it should be) for any drug to pass before it gets to market, and this costs a lot of money to do years of clinical trials. Your dream of third-world drug prices depends on deregulation to streamline drug development, and/or dependency on other countries for innovation.

These are not good ideas.

You've been deriding the concept of profit for a number of posts here. I think it is high time that you define "corporate excess". How much profit is allowed? Are all types of businesses limited to the same profit margin? Who decides what that margin will be?
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby 10up » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:06 pm

and just to tack onto that little "quote by you" at the end there Tufluk.

I've never thought your intentions were born of malice (maybe spite though, I don't know what happened to you when you were little).

I have always (and still) chalk it up to your incomprehensible stupidity. It's there, evident in every post you make, every opinion you vomit, and every response you make in attempted concealment.

You are petty and you have a very skewed perception of life and the people living it with you. I can only hope it dies with you soon.
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby Bugslayer » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:25 pm

I care less about the profits being made by Big Pharm....it's how they spend it that bothers me!

Do they spend it on innovation to make the drugs cheaper and better? No.... they use it to bribe doctors into prescribing their often less effective but always more expensive drugs.

Do they use it to increase the pay of their workers? No...they use it to buy influence in Washington to extend patents (preventing generic copies of their drugs...IE less expensive)

Do they use it on research to make even better drugs? No...they use it to buy out small foreign drug companies to eliminate competition and secure their spot in the market.

If this is what they do with their profits then yes...they make too damn much! :shock:
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby IHearChains » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:48 pm

I totally agree on this point. They spend roughly half their budgets on marketing, and it has been an accelerating arms race. Direct-to-consumer marketing is a relatively new development in pharmaceutical marketing. Personally I would like to see that eliminated.
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby grodney » Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:39 am

You guys confuse me on "profit" vs "income".
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby Bugslayer » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:42 am

very simple...Income equals the amount of money your company brings in....profit is what is left after operating expenses.

What makes this subject worse is how the deck is stacked. The money they spend bribing doctors and buying influence?...TAX DEDUCTABLE! The more they spend on things like this the less they have to pay on the rest of their income. Politicians "talk" about shutting these loopholes but that's is where they get a lot of their perks. They would be cutting their own throats, it will never happen. :roll:

If those Tea Baggers want to REALLY take back America, pay fewer taxes, and control the size of Government.....they need to recognize that the throats that need cut are the ones funding them! They WOULD pay smaller tax bills if big business was paying their fair share! They would have smaller government if you outlawed the lobbyists that make being in government so profitable, and who spend their time and energies stacking the deck in favor of their various businesses, who by their very existence create the need for more bureaucratic apparatus. Talk about being led down the primrose path :shock:

Straighten up the tax code, outlaw lobbyists, hold the current (and past) politicians accountable for the way things are, term limits on the politicians and take away the lifetime perks of serving....that would help take back the country.
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby 10up » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:41 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/2 ... 83902.html

Congressional Staffer leaves loaded handgun in a Gov't Bldg. Bathroom.

I'll bet you can guess what party he reps, but can you guess the state?
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby grodney » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:27 am

I'm claiming Poe's Law in case this isn't real.

Opt out of ObamaCare - Male version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djCftQGTMC8&noredirect=1

Female version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FEUoNkF29o&noredirect=1
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby irban » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:57 am

grodney wrote:I'm claiming Poe's Law in case this isn't real.

Opt out of ObamaCare - Male version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djCftQGTMC8&noredirect=1

Female version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FEUoNkF29o&noredirect=1

Those are real. Pretty cynical, "refuse to sign up for health insurance, so we can stick it to Obama". Wonder if the young people who end up with catastrophic health issues can call the koch bros for help with their medical bills.

I had two brothers in law die from leukemia in their 20s. One died just as he reached the lifetime cap that was in place before Obamacare took it away. What if he had lived; no more health insurance? What if his treatment had continued past it?

The other had his insurance through the Ottumwa hospital he worked at. Their insurance company threatened to cancel the plan for the entire hospital, if they didn't take him off. To their credit, the hospital refused, and the insurance company backed down. He died a couple of months later anyway, good news for the insurance company I guess.
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Re: This explains a lot.

Postby grodney » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:27 pm

I've heard many say it, and it's so true: The GOP isn't concerned that the ACA is going to do harm to America, they're concerned that it's going to work!
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