Changes to the PDGA rule book 2013 edition

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Re: Changes to the PDGA rule book 2013 edition

Postby IHearChains » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:20 am

Speaking of wrong lie situations...

Guy throws downhill toward water, disc looks like it is probably going to be OB, but it goes over the curve of the hill and out of sight before anyone can see it land OB. Nobody on the card can actually tell what happened to it. Spotter (not a tournament participant) says he saw it go OB. Disc is seen in the water. Lie is marked based on that disc and where it likely went OB, based on the spotters word (that may be a problem right there). After the guy makes his next throw, his disc is found, inbounds, 50 ft closer to the basket than where he threw from. Turns out the other disc seen in the water was not his. Spotter was obviously way off on the location of the disc and whether it went OB at all.

What is the correct way to address this?
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Re: Changes to the PDGA rule book 2013 edition

Postby Discgo » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:36 am

Kick the spotter in the shin...jk
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Re: Changes to the PDGA rule book 2013 edition

Postby IHearChains » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:28 am

Discgo wrote:Kick the spotter in the shin...jk


Ha ha, That would be the place to start. :lol:
Then what?
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Re: Changes to the PDGA rule book 2013 edition

Postby cgkdisc » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:06 am

Presuming the player threw one throw from the edge of the water before his disc was found, it counts as a practice throw under the new rules and the player continues from where his original disc was found inbounds. If he made two throws from the wrong lie before discovering his disc, he continues to hole out and adds a 2-shot penalty. There's no additional OB penalty tacked on even though the initial mark was made presuming the disc was OB. That's the case even if the mistake was discovered just before the scorecard was turned in.
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Re: Changes to the PDGA rule book 2013 edition

Postby GDL17921 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:16 am

here's another rule question Chuck. On a tight, short downhill hole (hole 17 at Westlake) player 1 throws and lands about halfway down the fairway, on the left edge of the shule almost up against a tree - not an easy 2nd shot for a RHBH player. Player 2 throws and his disc skips into player 1's disc, causing player 1's disc to pop up in the air, land in the middle of the fairway and roll a bit closer to the basket. Do you move player 1's disc back to the original lie where it came to rest as agreed on by the majority of the group, or does player 1 play it as it lies?
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Re: Changes to the PDGA rule book 2013 edition

Postby SARG27044 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:20 am

IHearChains wrote:
Discgo wrote:Kick the spotter in the shin...jk


Ha ha, That would be the place to start. :lol:
Then what?

"Provisional" 'provisional" Then if you're still not sure, call out...."provisional"
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Re: Changes to the PDGA rule book 2013 edition

Postby IHearChains » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:36 am

cgkdisc wrote:Presuming the player threw one throw from the edge of the water before his disc was found, it counts as a practice throw under the new rules and the player continues from where his original disc was found inbounds. If he made two throws from the wrong lie before discovering his disc, he continues to hole out and adds a 2-shot penalty. There's no additional OB penalty tacked on even though the initial mark was made presuming the disc was OB. That's the case even if the mistake was discovered just before the scorecard was turned in.


So the way to address it is with practice throw penalty. Good to know.

Here's how it was played: Initially the group agreed it was OB based on the spotter's call and the sight of disc in water (wrong disc as it turns out), and the player proceeded to play it that way. When the correct disc was found, the group had a discussion and considered
(a) "lost disc" and rethrow from previous lie (since the correct disc was not located til well after 3 min -- but the group did not look for 3 min)
(b) "wrong lie" and add stroke
(c) play it out as a provisional from the correct lie and let TD decide

Eventually it was decided that whatever happened after the original call didn't matter, the call would stand. So he took the OB penalty and finished the hole from wrong lie without any additional penalty for wrong lie. Nobody made a big deal of it, because he clearly gained no advantage. Still a provisional would absolutely have been a way better decision.
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Re: Changes to the PDGA rule book 2013 edition

Postby cgkdisc » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:16 pm

GDL17921 wrote:here's another rule question Chuck. On a tight, short downhill hole (hole 17 at Westlake) player 1 throws and lands about halfway down the fairway, on the left edge of the shule almost up against a tree - not an easy 2nd shot for a RHBH player. Player 2 throws and his disc skips into player 1's disc, causing player 1's disc to pop up in the air, land in the middle of the fairway and roll a bit closer to the basket. Do you move player 1's disc back to the original lie where it came to rest as agreed on by the majority of the group, or does player 1 play it as it lies?

Once a disc is at rest, it gets replaced if anything moves it including another player's throw or wind. That now includes discs that have come to rest in a tree and later gets blown down before the player gets to it to mark it.
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Re: Changes to the PDGA rule book 2013 edition

Postby cgkdisc » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:20 pm

IHearChains wrote:
cgkdisc wrote:Presuming the player threw one throw from the edge of the water before his disc was found, it counts as a practice throw under the new rules and the player continues from where his original disc was found inbounds. If he made two throws from the wrong lie before discovering his disc, he continues to hole out and adds a 2-shot penalty. There's no additional OB penalty tacked on even though the initial mark was made presuming the disc was OB. That's the case even if the mistake was discovered just before the scorecard was turned in.


So the way to address it is with practice throw penalty. Good to know.

Here's how it was played: Initially the group agreed it was OB based on the spotter's call and the sight of disc in water (wrong disc as it turns out), and the player proceeded to play it that way. When the correct disc was found, the group had a discussion and considered
(a) "lost disc" and rethrow from previous lie (since the correct disc was not located til well after 3 min -- but the group did not look for 3 min)
(b) "wrong lie" and add stroke
(c) play it out as a provisional from the correct lie and let TD decide

Eventually it was decided that whatever happened after the original call didn't matter, the call would stand. So he took the OB penalty and finished the hole from wrong lie without any additional penalty for wrong lie. Nobody made a big deal of it, because he clearly gained no advantage. Still a provisional would absolutely have been a way better decision.

It's officially not called a "practice throw" penalty but the result is the same. But it only applies if the mistaken lie is caught after only one throw has been made. I wonder if the TD would have made the correct call if right nearby when the error was discovered.
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Re: Changes to the PDGA rule book 2013 edition

Postby Clue » Tue May 07, 2013 12:44 am

Here's one:

Hole 8 at Pickard, the disc slides under the bridge but is safe. There's no physical way to get a contact point behind the disc or marker. You can't go backwards because the bridge crosses the OB creek, and you can't play from the bridge because it's not the playing surface. Pretty sure this area usually gets painted OB for the Challenge, but if it were overlooked how would you play it?
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Re: Changes to the PDGA rule book 2013 edition

Postby Cydisc » Tue May 07, 2013 11:56 am

Play as if the bridge is a solid object obstructing stance, much like if you were up against the front side of a tree. Assuming it's impossible to take a stance on a line behind the obstacle (since that would be OB), I think you need to obey the "spirit of the rule" by taking a stance at the nearest point to the position of the disc where it is physically possible to take a legal stance.
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Re: Changes to the PDGA rule book 2013 edition

Postby The Donator » Tue May 07, 2013 12:12 pm

Clue wrote:Here's one:
There's no physical way to get a contact point behind the disc or marker.

If you marked the disc, you cant get your foot behind the marker?
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Re: Changes to the PDGA rule book 2013 edition

Postby blkwizardsonny » Tue May 07, 2013 1:16 pm

The Donator wrote:
Clue wrote:Here's one:
There's no physical way to get a contact point behind the disc or marker.

If you marked the disc, you cant get your foot behind the marker?

are you asking a question the answer is in the quote you quoted :roll:
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Re: Changes to the PDGA rule book 2013 edition

Postby The Donator » Tue May 07, 2013 2:51 pm

blkwizardsonny wrote:
The Donator wrote:
Clue wrote:Here's one:
There's no physical way to get a contact point behind the disc or marker.

If you marked the disc, you cant get your foot behind the marker?

are you asking a question the answer is in the quote you quoted :roll:

Just seeing why cant you put your foot where the disc is. The disc is sitting there, why cant the players' foot? How was there a contact point where the disc landed then?
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Re: Changes to the PDGA rule book 2013 edition

Postby ghstinshll » Tue May 07, 2013 3:36 pm

It would be interesting to hear you guys say what holes tend to lead to judgement questions, etc, most often during tournaments in DSM.

Creek on 10 at PK?

Up against the fence on 1 at GV?

Just curious, as the challenge is coming up...
Last edited by ghstinshll on Wed May 08, 2013 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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