2012 USDGC

Tournaments in the rest of the non Iowa world

Postby Like_Water » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:41 pm

AO, Chuck is comparing just stroke penalty, not stroke and distance, to the distance penalty. S&D is too tough for.the best players in the world. Except in 2010 when it played the best I'd ever experienced.
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Postby grodney » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:48 pm

AO wrote:With stroke and distance...par would not have been able to be saved on 2,3, 5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,16,17,and 18


I like that AO and Tanner prefer stroke-and-distance to either the old OB or this year's OB.
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Postby Like_Water » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:57 pm

grodney wrote:
AO wrote:With stroke and distance...par would not have been able to be saved on 2,3, 5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,16,17,and 18


I like that AO and Tanner prefer stroke-and-distance to either the old OB or this year's OB.


Id be curious what the rest of the players think on this. I'm guessing they think most of the "out of the box" stuff is hokey and makes us look silly, but you never know.

It's tough to argue with Chuck who is so vested in the system he's created and much better at stats than I can keep up with. I have done enough fantasy football to know I can get stats to tell any story I wish to write. I'll stick with I've played 6 times, probably with 6 different sets of rules. 2010 was the best the course ever played.
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Postby Dana » Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:25 pm

If I was making the rules-

1 normal
2 normal
3 must land on island
4 buncr or s&d ??
5 s&d
6 buncr or s&d ??
7 normal
8 normal
9 buncr or s&d ??
10 s&d
11 normal
12 ?
13 ?
14 buncr
15 normal
16 s&d or buncr ??
17 must land on island
18 ???
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Postby cgkdisc » Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:00 pm

I definitely support the variety of OB options that Dana has posted where the format makes sense for the hole. I believe normal OB with a required drop zone is the best rule for OB where you can't easily see where a player went OB, typically when the OB is parallel to the fairway or blind.

Despite what it might seem, I'm not a big fan of the extreme buncr rule played at the USDGC this year for general play because it really requires a spotter to manage it in most cases. Most of the OB boundaries there if the holes were on other courses I would use either regular OB, OB with a drop zone and maybe even T&D in a few cases. I'd have to go thru hole by hole but I'm not sure I would use extreme buncr anywhere except maybe for variety on a hole where you can see the OB like maybe 3.

The problem with T&D in general is no shot is really so bad it deserves a 2-shot penalty unless it leaves the property. Even then, I would hope a course is designed where the property boundary doesn't come into play too often so players aren't retrieving discs from off the course.

OB/hazard penalties should be equal to or slightly more punitive equivalent of going into the schule off a wooded fairway. Even then, wooded lies are not necessarily an automatic 1-shot penalty since there's many times a chance to recover.

The extreme buncr rule sometimes allows a player to land in a better position (but not guaranteed) after rethrowing and lying two than they might be lying two after taking an OB penalty and marking where they went out. But it's still a 1-shot penalty which is greater on average than the result of most lies played after landing off the wooded fairway.
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Postby Dana » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:20 pm

Something that I like about having "normal" OB rules at Winthrop is that you might find yourself in a spot that you have never been before. With buncr and throw/distance we pretty much only throw from the tee or your specific landing zone.

We were definitely missing spotters this year. It was pretty annoying having to throw a provisional or 2.
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Postby Cydisc » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:28 pm

Like_Water wrote:I'm guessing they think most of the "out of the box" stuff is hokey and makes us look silly...
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Postby Disc Golf Live » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:23 am

I think its unfortunate that the Innova folks are wedded to the Winthrop course in the first place. The whole problem of how to manage scores comes down to play on a highly artificial course sadly lacking natural features (thus the perceived necessity of miles of OB rope). While there are some advantages to the Winthrop setting, I think its too bad the whole affair has to be carried out in so artificial an environment, particularly given the many "natural" courses in the surrounding area. If bad shots carried off into the woods (or down a ravine, into a creek, or behind a wall of shrubs) there would be natural scoring opportunities and less bending over backwards to make folks score bad, or less bad, or a little bad but not too bad.

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Postby irban » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:55 am

Disc Golf Live wrote:.. to make folks score bad, or less bad, or a little bad but not too bad.

:)
~~~- ¥
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Postby grodney » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:18 am

AO wrote:Course looks great! 17 is in the middle placement


Did they play different placements in the different rounds? It was in the far left when I was there Sunday.
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Postby cgkdisc » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:53 am

Far left R2 & R4. In the middle in R1 & R3.
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Postby grodney » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:20 am

Chuck, you gonna combine the rounds into a single SSA? They were all pretty close, as it looked.
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Postby cgkdisc » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:40 am

Yep. I don't think the hole 17 change was enough to warrant pairing rounds and the weather seemed the same all week.
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