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Postby GDL17921 » Thu May 12, 2011 9:01 am

It is, or was documented on pdga.com. Somebody above remembers reading it too. Thought you might have known or remembered.
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Postby cgkdisc » Thu May 12, 2011 9:09 am

There was a discussion thread about the doubles rules and this issue at one point so maybe you read it there. But I don't think the doubles rules have changed in the Rules area of the PDGA site. The doubles rules are in the process of being updated and here's the phrasing being considered on this topic.

"If the first player throws from a lie that the team hadn’t agreed would be their lie, the second player may throw from the other lie. However, the second player’s throw must then be used and the first player’s throw discarded."
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Postby SARG27044 » Thu May 12, 2011 9:11 am

GDL17921 wrote:It is, or was documented on pdga.com. Somebody above remembers reading it too. Thought you might have known or remembered.
I remember reading this, or being told it. Maybe its just another one of those non-rule rules that go around.
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Postby grodney » Thu May 12, 2011 9:30 am

cgkdisc wrote:"If the first player throws from a lie that the team hadn’t agreed would be their lie, the second player may throw from the other lie. However, the second player’s throw must then be used and the first player’s throw discarded."


I have NO REASON to care about this at all, but the above seems really stupid. MUCH simpler (and more logical, to me), is "once either member throws from a lie, that is their lie". Period.
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Postby cgkdisc » Thu May 12, 2011 9:39 am

I think the proposed wording allows both players on a team to resolve their differences. If player A likes one lie but partner B is skeptical, player A throws and partner B can assess the shot and determine whether it's worth risking playing from the other lie and negating player A's throw or playing from where player A threw from. It's sort of like the way to resolve dividing something where one gets to cut the remaining piece of pie in "half" and the other gets to choose which piece.
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Postby GDL17921 » Thu May 12, 2011 9:41 am

you mean, like when there's no scale available? :lol:
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Postby grodney » Thu May 12, 2011 9:54 am

cgkdisc wrote:If player A likes one lie but partner B is skeptical, player A throws and partner B can assess the shot and determine whether it's worth risking playing from the other lie and negating player A's throw or playing from where player A threw from.


In my world, this is precisely why you would NOT word it that way. This scenario should not be allowed to happen. It is simply not the spirit of the game, to me.

And with that, I say, meh, whatever.
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Postby SARG27044 » Thu May 12, 2011 10:05 am

If thats how it would be worded, I wouldnt have a problem with it. Sure they could gain an advantage by shoootin from witch ever lie they preferred, but also risk the chance of having something bad happen (like rolling ob as mentioned above) And then if they decide to go that route, they forfeit their right to choose from their next lies(forced to play from their second shot). Kinda averages out IMO
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Postby cgkdisc » Thu May 12, 2011 10:22 am

One way or the other a rule needs to be created for when the partner throws from the other lie because it will occasionally happen by accident or lack of attention. From Rodney's perspective, what would happen? Does the team get a practice throw penalty? Does the second throw not count? Does the partner get to go and play from the first lie without penalty?

It seems like the proposed wording is a more fair approach and a small strategic element that might occasionally occur. It deals with the fact that sometimes one lie is better for one player and the other for the partner when one is lefty and one is righty. The righty throws from the "righty" lie. If that shot is good, the lefty then throws from that less desirable lie from their standpoint. But if the shot from the righty lie isn't great and even OB, then it might make sense for the team that the lefty play the other lie and the team takes their chances that that throw will be better.
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Postby rightcunnin » Thu May 12, 2011 10:49 am

Both players tee off, walk to their discs, decide which ONE to play from, the shot that is not being used is picked up THEN both players throw from the other spot. Repeat until the hole is finished. How is this being debated?
I'm sorry that the middle of my sentence interrupted the beginning of yours.
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Postby cgkdisc » Thu May 12, 2011 10:54 am

Agreed that this is how Best Shot is to be played. The discussion is how to handle it when that procedure is not followed by a team for whatever reason. Singles rules don't directly answer the question.
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Postby rightcunnin » Thu May 12, 2011 11:20 am

If the shot not being used is to be picked up before any throws are made this should take care of the need of a penalty but, since people can't follow simple instructions, I would make it a stiff penalty. Say, 5 strokes. I say it should be tough because it's such an easy procedure to follow: Tee, decide, pick 1 up, throw from the other, continue. If you can't follow that you deserve a buch of extra strokes. If speed of play is an issue then players could state which lie they are throwing from and proceed throwing. Once the 1st of those throws is airborne the other disc is officially considered "picked up" and no throws can be made from it.
I'm sorry that the middle of my sentence interrupted the beginning of yours.
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Postby Crager » Thu May 12, 2011 11:22 am

I remember about 15 years ago I was partnered up with Tim Peyton, my shot was at least 25 ft shorter than his so i picked up. Tim's shot was under a bush with no good way out, he cursed me up and down for picking up my disc, lesson learned, make sure you know what shot you are going to take before picking up.
I would say if you had any common sense at all you would not even think about throwing from your shot if your partner had already thrown , chalk that one up and move on.
Communication is the key.
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Postby irban » Thu May 12, 2011 11:28 am

I'm with Rodney. Keep it simple. Why introduce a situation that half the card is going to be confused about? Sometimes people throw before they're ready, and need to accept the consequences. Then you have a discussion on the way to the next tee.. "lets be sure we agree on the lie before we throw"... and it never happens again.

edit: In fact it would be simpler to say "Once one lie is played from, the other lie is void." Then people would be aware how important it is to discuss before throwing.
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Postby Cydisc » Thu May 12, 2011 11:40 am

Here's why I'm taking the opposing view in this situation...

The spirit of the game is that the best (better) lie is played from. Yes, it happens that disc golfers are sometimes unobservant morons and will make the mistake of playing from the less desirable lie. I think the rest of the group realizes that a mistake was made and the intention was to play from the desirable lie.

So, the penalty for Player A is that he played from the bad lie. Requiring Player B to also play from that lie amounts to a double penalty and becomes, as Brian alluded to earlier, a different game, called "Worst Shot".
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