Rules Questions

General topics - anything goes within reason, keep it civil.

Postby Abe Froman » Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:47 pm

Single L wrote:
SARG27044 wrote:http://www.pdga.com/rules
70% of all questions can be answered here...the rest are open for interpretation :lol:

And 70% of all stats are made up

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
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Postby Single L » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:41 am

Not so much of a rules question as this is more of a statement because a ruling has been bugging me all week.

There are 3 holes on a course. Hole A is an island green; hole B tees from one side of the creek with the pin on the other (tee side of creek is OB); and hole C plays like a combo of holes A and B (tee on one side of creek and island green).

Image Image Image

Before the round hole B was in or over creek (tee side) was ob. After the round it was brought to my attention that a ruling had been made that if you were over the creek you were safe because "you can't tee from out-of-bounds" as the tee is on the ob side of the creek.

This was an incorrect ruling. Based on this ruling both A and C would not be allowed because the "tee is out-of-bounds" on both those holes as well. Furthermore every island green ever played would be illegal based on this call. Without going into the minutia this is all you need to prove it was the wrong call. Basically hole B plays just like an island, sans rope. End of story it was a blown call.

I’ve played a number of tournaments were TD's say that on or in a creek, road, or bike path is OB but over is not OB because the tee is on the ob side and the tee cannot be OB. This is so far from the truth and actually makes the holes play really fluky as the OB is more about a bad break (or roll/skip) then skill, especially with 4 ft wide sidewalks and creeks.

Theoretically the tee is an In-bounds island that you are throwing from in this situation, and if you really think about it the tee is an island at all times as you can't have a support point outside the teeing area at release, so really it’s irrelevant where the tee is.


Ahhhhhh I feel better :D
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Postby irban » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:07 am

I agree. Plus, if the disc was touching a piece of grass anywhere, it's also in bounds. :P

How much of my hard earned Clive tax money went into that presentation. :o
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Postby SARG27044 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:07 am

I agree with ya. Hole 18 at Colfax is a good example. I liked how it was played during the tourny. Anything short or tee side of the road is OB. I dont see why people say you cant tee from OB.
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Postby cgkdisc » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:09 am

The tee is always inbounds regardless whether the area surrounding it is OB or IB. Some issues that the TD must resolve are marking the actual boundaries of the tee if it's not a hard surface pad and determining the options a player has for their next throw if they land OB and their disc was never over IB after leaving the tee. Sometimes it's a retee and sometimes a drop zone is specified.
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Postby Single L » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:10 am

irban wrote:I agree. Plus, if the disc was touching a piece of grass anywhere, it's also in bounds. :P

How much of my hard earned Clive tax money went into that presentation. :o


1/8 of a cent (only took my about 10 minutes) 8)
"I'm not impressed with aces of any kind. 95% of the time, they're just bad shots that got lucky and happened to hit the chains. Otherwise, they'd have sailed 50' past the hole." ~ Cydisc
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Postby Single L » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:12 am

cgkdisc wrote:The tee is always inbounds regardless whether the area surrounding it is OB or IB.

That was my main point to the +1000 Rated Pro who brought the issue up to me.
"I'm not impressed with aces of any kind. 95% of the time, they're just bad shots that got lucky and happened to hit the chains. Otherwise, they'd have sailed 50' past the hole." ~ Cydisc
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Postby Cydisc » Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:03 am

Single L wrote:
cgkdisc wrote:The tee is always inbounds regardless whether the area surrounding it is OB or IB.

That was my main point to the +1000 Rated Pro who brought the issue up to me.


Just because they can play, doesn't mean they're geniuses.
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Postby GDL17921 » Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:44 am

Single L wrote:
irban wrote:I agree. Plus, if the disc was touching a piece of grass anywhere, it's also in bounds. :P

How much of my hard earned Clive tax money went into that presentation. :o


1/8 of a cent (only took my about 10 minutes) 8)


you only earn 6 cents a day? Damn, Brian, you need to pay some more taxes! :lol:
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Postby Brady » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:47 pm

I encountered an interesting rules situation this weekend. I was on the next tee from the group that had the rules infraction and witnessed it from afar. Here's the situation:

The guys upshot goes long and down into a deep cliff area that is still considered in bounds. The group looks for 3 minutes and declares the disc lost. At that point the group places his lie where they agreed the disc was "last seen" and he holes out from there taking a circle 5 (one penalty stroke for the lost disc). They got up to us on the next tee box and we informed them that he played that hole incorrectly and that he needed to throw from his previous lie when the disc was declared lost.

What's the penalty for playing the hole wrong here? I couldn't find anywhere in the book that addressed a situation like this.
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Postby GDL17921 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:12 pm

see playing from the wrong lie.
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Postby Brady » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:24 pm

GDL17921 wrote:see playing from the wrong lie.


Where would that be covered? There's a section for "playing from another player's lie" but that doesn't cover this situation where the lie was basically made up by the group.
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Postby Hamer » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:30 pm

Playing from a made up lie would be playing from the wrong lie.

The correct lie would have been to go back to approximately where the player had previously thrown from and throw again with an additional penalty stroke.

Assuming his upshot was his second shot then when going back to the previous lie he would be throwing four.

That is the way it seems to me.
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Postby Brady » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:43 pm

Hamer wrote:Playing from a made up lie would be playing from the wrong lie.

The correct lie would have been to go back to approximately where the player had previously thrown from and throw again with an additional penalty stroke.

Assuming his upshot was his second shot then when going back to the previous lie he would be throwing four.

That is the way it seems to me.


Yes, what you said is all correct. I'm just saying that I can not find anywhere in the rules book that discusses playing from the "wrong lie". Now you can logically extend the rules in the section "playing from another players lie" to work here and I think that's probably the right call. It just seems like the "playing from another player's lie" section should be renamed to "playing from the wrong lie" and cover all instances.

I think we can all agree that an automatic 2 stoke penalty is the correct call here.
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Postby Single L » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:48 pm

801.04.D - Playing the Stipulated Course

In instances where a misplay is discovered after thepertinent hole or holes have been completed (holed out), the misplayshall not be replayed and the player shall receive a two-throw penaltyfor the misplay.
"I'm not impressed with aces of any kind. 95% of the time, they're just bad shots that got lucky and happened to hit the chains. Otherwise, they'd have sailed 50' past the hole." ~ Cydisc
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