FOX News - Bad for your health

General topics - anything goes within reason, keep it civil.

Postby frogawitdafizzle » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:43 pm

DaveS1823 wrote:
SoCal19 wrote:Unions have outpriced their workers. The work they provide is no longer worth the amount of money they're demanding, thus the jobs are moved over seas where the same quality of work is provided for much, much less.


You know, I had a big long post written up and was about to hit send when it occurred to me, most people who are against unions have never really stared poverty in the face and just don't understand. I have and I do. I grew up the oldest of 4 in a 3 room house (not 3 bedroom, but 3 rooms) in NE Missouri. My father worked hard to make ends meet, but it just wasn't enough. To say I know what being poor is is an understatement.

So, yes, let's give all our jobs to the Chinese because our work isn't worth what we want as pay. Let's make all our workers work for minimum wage in places like McDonald's and buying all the low quality junk China will sell us. Then all those rich CEO's will find out that they've out priced themselves as well.
We were the same as you bro, except 9 kids. We didnt get food stamps or government cheese, dad always said it was 4 poor people. He worked UAW for 45 years. Phil I dont think you know much about the labor movement, dont you still live at home
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Postby dx pete » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:48 pm

you guys are funny. and heloooo quit bitchin about money. Heres a little secret: I found this machine at the Casey's by my house that spits out cash if you know the magic numbers. Its kinda toward the back. And is it weird that the narrative voice in my head when i read these posts is that of Squidward?
opulence, I has it.
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Postby Clue » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:01 pm

The union argument is irrelevant. The issue is at the top with government, trade issues, and CEOs. Unions were/are great for many workers. The unions wanted in my business and it would've been a disaster for me, but it would've been good for many individuals. As a laborer I would love to be union, but as a taxpayer I can't stand that I pay for union labor. There's good and bad to everything.
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Postby Grimm » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:01 pm

I don't know this is in the right thread; but I'm not starting a new one.

In WWII, Japan 's highest ranking naval officer was Isoruku Yamamoto. Although he was Japanese, and his loyalties were unquestionably with The Empire, he studied for many years in America , graduating from Harvard University . There is an oft-repeated (and sometimes disputed) quote attributed to him regarding the possibility of any nation taking a war to American soil:

"You cannot invade the mainland United States . There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."
Here is why he was correct:
-------------------------------------------------------
America's Hunters.

The World's Largest Army.

The state of Wisconsin has gone an entire deer hunting season without someone getting killed. That's great, considering there were over 600,000 hunters that got permits this year.

Allow me to restate that number.

Over the last two months, the eighth largest army in the world - more men under arms than Iran; more than France and Germany combined - deployed to the woods of a single American state to keep the deer population under control.

But that pales in comparison to the 750,000 who are in the woods of Pennsylvania this week. Michigan 's 700,000 hunters have now returned home. Toss in a quarter million hunters in West Virginia , and it is literally the case that the hunters of those four states alone would comprise the largest army in the world.

And that is just FOUR states.

The total population of registered hunters in America today ranges from 23 million to 43.7 million individuals. (Based on annual data provided by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.)

As long as the American Hunter retains his right to Bear Arms, America will forever be safe from foreign invasion of troops.
Hunting - it's not just a way to fill the freezer. It's a matter of National Security!

I agree "I'll give you my gun when you take it from my cold, dead hands."
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Postby Abe Froman » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:43 pm

frogawitdafizzle wrote:Phil I dont think you know much about the labor movement, dont you still live at home



hahahahahahahahaaaaaaa
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Postby Cydisc » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:40 pm

Abe Froman wrote:
frogawitdafizzle wrote:Phil I dont think you know much about the labor movement, dont you still live at home



hahahahahahahahaaaaaaa


Uhhh... everyone lives at home.
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Postby SoCal19 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:17 am

frogawitdafizzle wrote:
DaveS1823 wrote:
SoCal19 wrote:Unions have outpriced their workers. The work they provide is no longer worth the amount of money they're demanding, thus the jobs are moved over seas where the same quality of work is provided for much, much less.


You know, I had a big long post written up and was about to hit send when it occurred to me, most people who are against unions have never really stared poverty in the face and just don't understand. I have and I do. I grew up the oldest of 4 in a 3 room house (not 3 bedroom, but 3 rooms) in NE Missouri. My father worked hard to make ends meet, but it just wasn't enough. To say I know what being poor is is an understatement.

So, yes, let's give all our jobs to the Chinese because our work isn't worth what we want as pay. Let's make all our workers work for minimum wage in places like McDonald's and buying all the low quality junk China will sell us. Then all those rich CEO's will find out that they've out priced themselves as well.
We were the same as you bro, except 9 kids. We didnt get food stamps or government cheese, dad always said it was 4 poor people. He worked UAW for 45 years. Phil I dont think you know much about the labor movement, dont you still live at home


Actually, I'm married and have a house. A nice one, that I worked hard for. No need to be a dick Frog. That's just like me telling you that you must not know much about paying taxes.

Dave you're right. There are a lot of people who are against unions that have never been poor. Never had to work a blue collar job. However, there's a lot of pro-union people who have never been wealthy and have never worked a white collar job. Have never had 50% of their income confiscated by the IRS. It always seems that union members are more interested in tearing wealthy people down instead of trying to become wealthy like them. You have to be able to see it from their point of view. Yes, I know a lot of them don't see if from your point of view either. You just can't argue with the effects of supply and demand when it comes to labor, especially in our current global economy.

My point wasn't to slam unions. Unions are good in some ways and bad in others. Like Clue said, they're very good for members. Unions have also forced employers to make the work place more safe, offer benefits, not discriminate. These are good things. However, they've continued to demand higher and higher wages, but the quality of work has topped out. The development of machines and the ability to move jobs over seas to cut costs is the reason jobs are scarce. Yeah, that may seem greedy, but it's reality.

Oh and I have stared poverty in the face. I grew up in a $30k house in the shit hole of Davenport with a single Mom and two brothers and before that we lived in government housing. I didn't have anything growing. My Mom filed bankruptcy twice in 12 years. My Mom and Dad used to fight over my Dad not paying his $200/month in child support for 3 kids.

All I'm saying is you can't be mad at the CEO's, because if you were in their position you'd be trying to get as much money as you can, just like you do as a union member. Be mad at the shareholders or maybe don't work for companies who ship jobs over seas. You know if Amercans would just not buy products from companies who ship jobs over seas (Like New Balance, who is the only major shoe manufacturer in the US who still makes their shoes here and not in China), they would bring some jobs back, but if unions wouldn't be so demanding on wages that would bring more jobs back. At my job if I don't like how much money I'm making, tough shit. I'd better start looking at another company or educate myself to be more qualifed or more valuable to the company. If you don't like what your company is willing to pay you, then do something else. That's what you have to do if you're non-union. That's why when the recession hit, the biggest job losses were in factory work and construction work.

All things aside. You're biased, because you work for a union. I'm biased because I don't.
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Postby IHearChains » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:30 pm

If someone wants to work harder than the next guy to better himself, he should be able to reap the benefits from that hard work. I think that is a fundamental part of what it means to be an American. But unions oppose merit pay. That's the main reason why I voted against unionizing in my workplace when it came up a few years ago.
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Postby Single L » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:34 pm

SoCal19 wrote:There are a lot of people who are against unions that have never been poor. Never had to work a blue collar job.

However, there's a lot of pro-union people who have never been wealthy and have never worked a white collar job. Have never had 50% of their income confiscated by the IRS.

It always seems that union members are more interested in tearing wealthy people down instead of trying to become wealthy like them.

You just can't argue with the effects of supply and demand when it comes to labor, especially in our current global economy.


News flash ....... not everyone can have white collar jobs and work to become rich.

Even if everyone got an education and worked a white collar job there would be no laborers. Have fun building that fancy white collar office building from behind your desk. It's called supply and demand in the job market; there aren't enough white collar jobs for all of us, and in really the economy needs blue collar workers. Sure goods can be shipped over seas for your CEO's "to benefit shareholders" (that's a laughable argument you make anyways), but the service and trades industries can't.
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Postby Like_Water » Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:18 pm

Discwrangler wrote:
SoCal19 wrote:
The CEO's job is to maximize the company's profits.


Where is the accountability to the country that allowed you get the a degree (or 4) to make something of yourself? Where is the accountability to the people who drove your company to the success in the first place?

The fact of the matter is the system is controlled by those with the money, and changing it is not in their best interests.


ahem.....
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Postby DaveS1823 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:41 pm

SoCal19 wrote: Be mad at the shareholders or maybe don't work for companies who ship jobs over seas.


One can not work for a company that ships it's jobs overseas. Those jobs no longer are available to us.

SoCal19 wrote:You know if Amercans would just not buy products from companies who ship jobs over seas (Like New Balance, who is the only major shoe manufacturer in the US who still makes their shoes here and not in China), they would bring some jobs back, but if unions wouldn't be so demanding on wages that would bring more jobs back.


This won't happen. As long as a company can get some 3rd world worker to make something for 25 cents a day, and not pay for retirement or worry about safety or environmental issues, the jobs will not return here.


SoCal19 wrote:That's why when the recession hit, the biggest job losses were in factory work and construction work.


The reason that jobs were lost in construction was because of the housing bubble and mortgage fiasco. As for the factory jobs, we've been hemorrhaging those for decades because of my point above.

Why don't we start from the beginning, what is too much to pay a factory worker (and don't use the auto workers' union as an example, because most union workers don't have nearly that good of a contract)?
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Postby bergdawg » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:32 pm

I suppose I could chime in on this. The company I work for outsources to Asia for it's factory work. This company was founded on outsourcing (it never took jobs away from Americans) and probably wouldn't have been successful without it. I think it's unfair to keep a businessman down and limited in what his business structure is.

In the same respect, I live in a city that was on the downfall until BMW(a foreign company) came in and set up it's North American factory here. It saved the entire part of the state from pretty much dissolving. The door swings both ways, consumers are everywhere and shipping over the ocean is expensive.
"I'm so tough I wipe my ass with sandpaper."
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Postby Like_Water » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:04 pm

Discwrangler wrote:
O_D wrote: But seriously, how is he any different than Bill Mahr or Janeane Garofalo...other than being financially successful?


Their followers aren't out killing people?


Or at least threatening too...

http://gawker.com/5740701/glenn-becks-r ... ociologist
Glenn Beck has been railing against 78-year-old CUNY professor Frances Fox Piven for weeks now, claiming she co-authored a devious plan to overthrow the government in the 1960s. Now, some of his fans are issuing death threats against her.

According to the New York Times, Piven has been receiving death threats after being villainized on Beck's show. "Somebody tell Frances I have 5000 rounds ready and I'll give My life to take Our freedom back," wrote one user on Beck's news site, The Blaze.

As a scholar, Piven is famous for her work on social movements. But Glenn Beck has become obsessed with one 1966 essay she and her husband wrote for The Nation, which argued for bringing about social change by overwhelming the welfare system. To Beck, the "Cloward & Piven Strategy" is sort of master plan by Liberals and the Obama administration to collapse the government—he even put her on his "nine most dangerous people in the world" list!

So, inevitably, the crazies started targeting Piven, whose work poses an enormous threat to American undergraduates trying to stay awake in intro sociology, and that's about it. Seems they think they can somehow prevent her from writing an article in a political journal in 1966 that maybe thirteen people outside of Glenn Beck fans have thought about since then? But it's a testament both to Glenn Beck's skill at making shit up, and his fans' ability to be crazy, that some Americans actually care enough about a sociology professor to threaten her.
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Hypocricy

Postby tufluk » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:59 pm

Boy, after reading that I'm almost speechless. Speechless is what I would be if people like discwrangler had their way. Shut me up!
I have followed politics since I was in grade school. Election night was a big deal. My dad was a cop, and very pro-gun. We watched not only local politics, but national politics. I'm 57 now, so I've seen a bunch.
I spend a bit of time each day, reading papers watching news, and even read a few blogs. I've listened to Rush, Air America, George Nori, and even Alex Jones. I've watched the news on Fox MSNBC, CNN and Public television.
Could it be said that each channel or comentator has a point of view? Surely. Could it be said that sometimes people say things in the heat of a discussion that is imprudent? No doubt.
To cherry-pick a few instances of violence in a country of 300 million and use them to smear a political perspective and to try to silence its proponents through boycotts or government regulations is un-American.
If a thinking person were to listen to Left/liberal leaning scources like; Daily Kos, Huffington Post, Democrat Underground, MSNBC or the defunct Air America, you would hear hate and vitriol that far surpasses any thing you hear on Fox News. BUT I would NEVER advocate anything to restrict their right to broadcast it.
If a person advocates a point of view you can say they're a partisan. What if a person wants to prevent their opponent from using "incendiary language" all the while knowing their side does the exact same thing? There's a word for that. HYPOCRITE.
"A man who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool, shun him" Anon
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Postby medicinal funk » Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:39 pm

this thread is a mess
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