Pierre Pierce- A free man

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Postby GDL17921 » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:27 pm

word.
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Postby flyinplastic23 » Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:17 pm

IHearChains wrote:
i have a problem with athletes who are commiting crimes and being allowed to stay on the team


Wasn't he kicked off the team?

There are bad apples in every segment of society. Pierre Pierce was an athlete, so what. He went to prison, as he should have.


he was kicked off the team after the second time he was charged (2 different incidents)...

there was another set of chargers earlier where he was charged for sexually assaulting another female athlete at Iowa. Many students on campus, myself included, believed he should have been kicked off after this first incident. I didnt include direct comments to this charge in my posts(but it was alluded too***see inserted quote below) because I assumed anyone who was talking about this in the forum knew that...i guess not.

flyinplastic23 wrote:its my opinion that Pierce should have been kicked off the team after the original charge, and the feeling of much of the campus at the time.
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Postby ajordanpippenfan » Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:46 pm

i don't think that the coach should decide whether he gets booted by what students on the college thinks. that shouldn't come into play at all. he has a decision to make based on what he believes. he did that.

many people deserve second chances in life. not just the athletes.

i also think that the athletes make so much money for their colleges that they are by far paying their own way and then some. the rest of the student body is in no way paying for the athlete's way. if anything, it is reversed.

i don't think that pierre was convicted the first time. i could be wrong on that one though. actually, i can't remember what even was assumed either.
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Postby ajordanpippenfan » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:25 pm

2002
In 2002 Pierce was charged with third degree sexual abuse. At a parole hearing in 2005, he described the event, "It was a friend I knew. We weren't dating, but we were familiar with each other. It was me taking control, taking advantage of the situation. It was a situation where this young lady walked into my room, and I wanted to take advantage of her. I looked at it as an opportunity to make sexual advances toward her. It was just me trying to take advantage of the situation. It was all about me, I was very selfish. I was looking at it as an opportunity to impress my buddies, who walked into the room on two occasions to watch me. I was more in tune with myself than her. She never said 'No,' but I should have been more in tune with her body language, physical expressions..I felt invincible, I thought I could get away with it." He eventually pleaded guilty to a lesser charge of assault causing injury. Pierce sat out the 2002-2003 season, completed 200 hours of community service, a year of supervised probation, and counseling. Afterwards, since he had successfully completed the terms of his plea bargain, the charge was expunged from his record.
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Postby flyinplastic23 » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:19 am

thanks for your opinion dan!

one quick question...

ajordanpippinfan wrote:many people deserve second chances in life. not just the athletes.


second chances in life, or second chances to play collegiate level basketball in the big 10?
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Postby ajordanpippenfan » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:41 am

depends on the person and what has happened. i would probably cut him once he is found guilty.

i don't fault someone for not seeing it the same way though. i understand that scores improve in school if you are involved in other areas, athletics included.

so, i do agree with you kelly. i just don't ride alford for his different opinion. that was all i was trying to say, i think.
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Postby flyinplastic23 » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:26 am

my comments are more geared torwards the university... not alford... i dont think it is his decision on major cases like Pierce's of what happens to the player, I almost certain that the President of the university and other university officals have a say in what happens, Alford carries it out. Other misdemeanor crimes, i am sure he has more of a say about games out etc. When a player is charged with sexual assault etc, i think the university steps in.
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Postby IHearChains » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:51 am

Long post...sorry.

many people deserve second chances in life. not just the athletes.


Imagine if a non-athlete student paying full tuition is convicted of assault and is punished, and the judicial system concludes that the charge should be expunged from the record. Does anyone seriously think the University would NOT give this person another chance?

And if it is a gifted musician, should that student have to change majors as a condition of the second chance? No, and neither should Pierre Pierce have had to give up his chosen vocation. It's not that I want to defend Pierre Pierce, because I definitely don't.

I guess I just dispute this idea that for some reason athletes on scholarship must be held to different standards.

Flyinplastic, another way to look at what you are suggesting, is that you might be inadvertently arguing that a tuition-paying student should get a pass with the criminal behavior, since you are pretty clear that you wouldn't hold that customer to the same standard you hold Pierre Pierce. I think that's wrong because it marginalizes the victim's point of view. Either perpetrator is equally socially retarded, and just as much a criminal. The punishment should fit the crime, not be adjusted depending on the persons chosen vocation. Both should get suspended, both should serve their punishment, and both should go to prison if they have a second offense.

If anything, Pierre Pierce got more punishment in both instances than your average tuition-paying student would have, simply because he is a high-profile athlete and people wanted to make an example of him. Sadly, a lot of average folks and rich suburban kids get a free pass on the kind of stuff he did. To me that is a much more important problem than the one isolated lightening rod high-visibility case of Pierre Pierce.
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Postby GDL17921 » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:58 am

This was a very well thought out post.
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Postby flyinplastic23 » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:12 pm

IHearChains wrote:Flyinplastic, another way to look at what you are suggesting, is that you might be inadvertently arguing that a tuition-paying student should get a pass with the criminal behavior, since you are pretty clear that you wouldn't hold that customer to the same standard you hold Pierre Pierce.


Pretty sure that is not what I am arguing

flyinplastic23 wrote:Shouldn't college athletes be held to a higher standard of behavior?....

here i state that athletes should have higher expectations of behavior.. meaning: they are representatives of the university...that they should be charged thru the rule of law like any other individual of society... because they are in trouble with the law, I think and added punishment from the university should be that they are no longer allowed to play intercollegiate sports

Like I said I understand that they cant be under watch at all time, but when they do commit these crimes, boot their arses. Our athletic programs might suffer, but it sets a higher standard for college athletes, one that universities should be willing to set. Students can get kicked out of school for plagiarism, but student-athletes who are sex offenders... they suffer a short probation and then are welcomed back to the team, while ESPN talks about what a season the "hawks" would have had if only Pierre Pierce was there (like he is some hero). (THIS EXAMPLE FROM HIS FIRST RUN IN).
I know most college students party, some have their run ins with the law, but these students are held to the rule of law, while other student-athletes who wear their University's name bright across their chest on national television, representing their school, fellow students, professors, and their state, are given the easy road... because the are athletes.

Easy road meaning, they are still allowed to play college athletics. I dont think that regular non scholarship students should be let off, in most cases when these students commit crimes it is dealt with the authorities... not the university.... and for the most part I am talking about major crimes, not misdemeanors.
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Postby ajordanpippenfan » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:26 pm

i believe assault with injury is a misdemeanor. i don't think he was considered a sex offender either, because of the charge.
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Postby ajordanpippenfan » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:27 pm

and, yes, i do not know who made the final decision. alford probably had his say also.
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Postby IHearChains » Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:15 pm

flyinplastic: Sorry if that offended you...please put away the red pen now. You clearly advocate a double standard, and In My Opinion this marginalizes the victim.

After the first infraction, if I understand your point, you would have Pierce permanently banned from his chosen vocation, even after serving his sentence and having the record expunged BY THE COURTS (not by the univ), with no second chance.

If that were the case, how would you explain that to the victim of a MBA student assault? Her assailant, after serving his sentence and having the record expunged, gets to go back and finish the MBA and go make millions on Wall St. If my daughter was that victim, I would not want to find out that the punishment was any less than that of Pierre Pierce.

We may disagree on that, but we can definitely agree Pierce is a loser.

Please don't get out the red pen again! Ouch!
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Postby flyinplastic23 » Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:30 pm

no i am not offended. I used the red to show where and what points i am making. I thought that this was a constructive debate. the whole purpose of me starting this thread was to hear peoples opinions of this. I am not in the least bit offended. you never called me a doody head or stoopid, and I didnt do that to you!!!

its all good in Pierre Pierce's hood.
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Postby 10up » Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:57 pm

doody head.

I'm just going to say that I haven't gotten in on this argument because it's pointless to argue with women.

8)
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