Team Tournament History

All Tournaments held in the state of Iowa or by Iowa affilitated clubs.

Re: Team Tournament History

Postby otowndiscnchic » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:41 am

Sprague wrote:First, let’s be clear. This tournament has never excluded women. It has only shifted to not having requirements for who you can bring (bring your best).

Second, many deserving players will not make it onto a team.

Third, have you researched the turnout for women at Iowa tournaments in 2012? The only tournament I’ve found that fielded more than 6 women is the G&L Clothing Challenge with 14, and I can verify that 6 of them for sure were not from Iowa (reduce that number now to 8 or less depending on the where the other players I didn’t recognize are from). The Rumble was 2nd at 6. The average turnout for women in all divisions appears to be around 3. Please review my numbers, I don’t want to misspeak here.

So now in one breath I’m hearing “let’s get more teams” and in another breath “let’s require a women player”, but the reality is if we required a female spot – this tournament would have the largest women’s turnout anywhere in Iowa. If the demand was there, more women would be playing tournaments in general.

I recommend that anyone that is feeling excluded from this event become a captain and start getting a team together – the tournament has yet to fill. This would accomplish two goals 1) more teams 2) everyone who wants to play bad enough can.

Not trying to offend anyone. Trust me, I’ve had to think this through several times (my wife is a great player). The numbers just don’t support making a requirement and that’s why I’ve tried to develop a bonus scenario for teams that bring a lady with them (they would compete in a separate event with extra credit to your team and they would join the 8 person alternate as a mulligan).


I agree with Chris on all accounts. I was wrong about the 3 years I played before this year (as a Captain). 2003 & 2004 I played for Ottumwa but it was totally NOT required to have a female on the team, I just happened to be one of the better players in Ottumwa at the time. 2008 at Big Creek was when we played match play against all other women from each team, Masters against Masters, etc. So 2008 was ONLY year I was on a team that there was a female requirement. I played for Ottumwa/Osky. So I honestly have no idea how many years there was a requirement for females and Masters. And I agree completely about there being less turnout of women in general to Iowa tournaments. In all my years playing, this is nothing new. Women, much more than men, come and go in this sport and very few are here to stay. But that's for another thread and another time. let's hear about some more history!!
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Re: Team Tournament History

Postby Sprague » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:38 am

diskey river wrote:gvccc has the biggest ladies turnout


I know the response will be "play better", but in reality there are only 3 communities that can fill an 8 person team full of pro level players, the same 3 communities are the only places to win this tourney. Nobody likes to feel like donating going in. I think that might be why some feel adding player requirements or different divisions can level the playing field a bit, not that it actually will, but it certainly feels like it might.

GVCC had 14 women.

Maybe I have failed at explaining the new format, but during the final round several of the teams you are referencing as "donating" were in contention. One scenario is a win outright rnd 3 followed by a bunch of ties - this could have vaulted those teams into 1st place.

This tournament is a showcase of the ever growing strength of Iowa players, not a handicap system where we all get a ribbon for showing up.

I recommend starting a team tournament with handicaps, exclude open level players, and run it in a central location - just don't call it the Iowa Team Championships - call in the Utopian Team Forward Event - no entry fees and no scores, just a fun day of golf ( and definitely no dodge ball or sugary drinks). Sorry - too far? Just having fun with you. Take care.
Last edited by Sprague on Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Team Tournament History

Postby The Donator » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:38 am

otowndiscnchic wrote: let's hear about some more history!!

You didnt play in 06. Theres history. Id love one woman per team, but lets get real. Last time we did this up at Jones/CR, it was a complete massacre. Tschig destroyed everyone, which is why i think CR got in the finals. I may be wrong....but she brought a shitload of points to their team. If we could do 10-12 man teams to include two women/master or two,so it wasnt like Jones, it may be different. Would love to see the whole spectrum, even if i dont make a team, Mrs. Wiley :lol:
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Re: Team Tournament History

Postby Sprague » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:45 am

And I stand by the extra credit scenario for bringing a female player. It will work within the existing format and gives everyone what they want - just more work for the host city.
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Re: Team Tournament History

Postby blkwizardsonny » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:06 pm

diskey river wrote:gvccc has the biggest ladies turnout


I know the response will be "play better", but in reality there are only 3 communities that can fill an 8 person team full of pro level players, the same 3 communities are the only places to win this tourney. Nobody likes to feel like donating going in. I think that might be why some feel adding player requirements or different divisions can level the playing field a bit, not that it actually will, but it certainly feels like it might.
i have to agree with all of this . i say there be two different team tourneys one bring your best 8 . two= requirements tourney this would make the best 8 tourney to suffer attendance a lil but would make more people happy all around maybe
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Re: Team Tournament History

Postby Sprague » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:16 pm

I ran the numbers - 5 of the 8 teams were in contention for the win during round 3. Some of those scenario's were low odds as they required specific teams to do poorly or tie, but the point spread needed for that to occur was a relatively small number of strokes (3 or 4 strokes ).

This format gives more communities a chance to be competitive than ever before.
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Re: Team Tournament History

Postby blkwizardsonny » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:26 pm

i agree with ya chris i liked it , but i also understand joes point only three teams are usually strong favorites every year
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Re: Team Tournament History

Postby blkwizardsonny » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:27 pm

double posted :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Team Tournament History

Postby Sprague » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:36 pm

blkwizardsonny wrote:
diskey river wrote:gvccc has the biggest ladies turnout


I know the response will be "play better", but in reality there are only 3 communities that can fill an 8 person team full of pro level players, the same 3 communities are the only places to win this tourney. Nobody likes to feel like donating going in. I think that might be why some feel adding player requirements or different divisions can level the playing field a bit, not that it actually will, but it certainly feels like it might.
i have to agree with all of this . i say there be two different team tourneys one bring your best 8 . two= requirements tourney this would make the best 8 tourney to suffer attendance a lil but would make more people happy all around maybe

Add a female player and DSM&QC1&QC2 are now top contenders.

We certaintly live in the greatest free country. Start planning the AM team tourney now (but next someone will be asking to restrict open women because it unfairly favors DSM and the QC). Then realization that certain teams can field stronger am teams than others, will start the conversation that it should be Intermediate and lower only or maybe just Rec.
Just a heads up.

I personally want to congratulate Newton/Team Cool/QC3 for jumping in the mix for the comraderie and fun! Especially big congrats to Ames for putting themselves in position to pull off the upset!
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Re: Team Tournament History

Postby Sprague » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:41 pm

blkwizardsonny wrote:i agree with ya chris i liked it , but i also understand joes point only three teams are usually strong favorites every year

Not true though - QC2 finished 3rd, Ames 4th, and CR 5th. This format gives teams more of a fighting chance than ever before - I think WL was the bigger factor for some teams. Playing at Ewing or Sugarbottom using this format would bring teams even closer together - I predict more upsets in the future.

Do you think Sarge would've ever won an open event with the attitude that only Sprague, AO, or Tanner are going to win each week - no he believed he could beat Goliath. BE DAVID!!! :!:
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Re: Team Tournament History

Postby diskey river » Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:50 pm

yeah Chris, you did an awesome job, and by no means am I telling anyone what should be happening, just thought this would be the forum to brainstorm some ideas about getting the whole state involved
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Re: Team Tournament History

Postby Sprague » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:34 pm

I understand - that's why we've pushed for the team oriented format with the mindset of making teams more competitive. I also know that if people want to play, they will. 9 teams was a good turnout relative to past years. Waterloo has a talented base and a 2hr drive - so I'm not personally going to focus on proximity as the culprit. I would love it if CBluffs took it down one year - love the cove or ski hill.

Also, having requirement didn't really change participation in years past.

Right after the Teams this year, I thought "I wish there were more of these events with this format."

Loved being apart of a team with real team play.
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Re: Team Tournament History

Postby discgolfduval » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:43 pm

Sprague wrote: Right after the Teams this year, I thought "I wish there were more of these events with this format."

Loved being apart of a team with real team play.


Completely agree with these 2 statements. This is in my top 5 tournys of the year.
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Re: Team Tournament History

Postby Cydisc » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:53 pm

Would a female requirement be the only way Donator gets on a team?
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Re: Team Tournament History

Postby Clue » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:55 pm

The part I never understand is why it's always dudes making the biggest fuss, especially when Allison is on here agreeing with Chris on *all accounts*.

I could argue for all the same reasons that we should have a mandatory youth spot and a mandatory 60+ yr old, and why? To promote the game to these demographics. NOBODY is arguing that we shouldn't do anything and everything we can to promote to youth, women, and old farts. I just don't necessarily think this is the venue for it, just like the Challenge and Rumble isn't the best venue to promote Juniors.

Again, I dream of doing a team event like Texas Teams where teams are comprised of mostly amateurs, a smattering of pros, women, masters, etc... Teams represent individual courses instead of towns and many courses are represented by multiple teams. It's an awesome tournament, and awesome concept, and it's everything you guys are talking about, except it's a completely different tournament that requires a unique venue that can handle 400+ players and allow camping. That's not exactly something we have around here.

Instead of focusing on what this tournament doesn't have we could focus on what it does have which is some unbelievable finishes, heartbreaking losses, tons of subplots... As I said earlier, I've gone from not making the team to being a borderline player to captain. I've seen players come out of nowhere to be hugely competitive in the singles match-play whether it be a kid from northern Iowa (who was throwing buzz's farther than most of us throw drivers), to Greg Dye grinding out a half with me at Jones on a 50ft do or die putt, Newton nearly knocking us off at Ewing last year in the 4-person alternate. Ames was a huge factor this year, I expect Northern Iowa to be back, Cedarloo (who nearly won it at Big Creek in 2011).

The bottom line is this is designed to be best vs best. That doesn't mean it's not for fun, or that we don't want everyone to take a shot, it's really the true meaning of an OPEN championship. It's open to anyone to take their shot against the best on the best layouts we have available. If anyone doesn't think spending the day playing in that environment isn't worth the nominal fee then this isn't the tournament for you. Thankfully there are virtually 100 others this year.
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