Big Ten - 12th Team

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Big Ten - 12th Team

Postby Single L » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:19 am

Wisconsin AD Barry Alvarez is pushing for a 12th Team in the Big Ten according to an ESPN Report

This happening anytime soon is not what I am posting about. I am posting to get your thought on who you all think should join the Big Ten. I know Notre Dame it the obvious choice, but is it the best choice?

The rumored short list is Syracuse, Rutgers, UConn, Nebraska, Missouri, Iowa State, Pitt, and Notre Dame.

While ND is the odds on favorite, I don't see them being the best fit. They are the biggest name and would bring in another traditional football powerhouse to the Big Ten, but there are some drawbacks. First they do not bring the Big Ten into a new market. The Big Ten is already in the Indian / Chicago markets so brining in new money from a new market is not an impact. With this move the NBC deal is gone, so that money is also gone, the only real income ND has to offer. Also this would mess Notre Dame’s Big East affiliation for all other sports. Bottom line financially Notre Dame needs the Big Ten more than the Big Ten needs Notre Dame.

While the Big East Schools would help bring in the New York market, big money to be made, I don't see them leaving the Big East for the Big Ten as it will be much harder to win in the Big Ten. The Big East schools mentioned have a much easier road to the BCS in their current conference. Big Ten purists also don’t want the Big Ten going any further east.

This leaves you with a Big 12 school. I think this is the best option. Iowa State does nothing for the Big Ten, so they’re out, and I don't see Nebraska leaving the Big 12, so you’re left with Missouri.

I see Missouri as being the best fit. Missouri fits all the criteria for the Big Ten and also brings in a new market. The Big Ten is smothered by the Big 12 south of the Iowa Boarder. By adding Missouri you bring in the St. Louis and Kansas City markets. The economic impact in these cities is far greater than that of adding Notre Dame. In turn you would leave the Big 12 short one team, which could be easily filled by TCU (Move Colorado to the South, Move Oklahoma and Oklahoma State to the North and you have a balanced Big 12 in the process).

Let’s assume that Missouri were to join the Big Ten, now you have to split them into 2 divisions. I don't think a simple east / west would work as you would lose a lot of rivalries that schools will not be willing to give up, and the fact that the East would be far superior. Here's how I would break it down to keep all rivalries intact and have a fairly balanced conference. You would play 5 games against your division, have one rival game from the other division locked, and rotate the other 5 teams into the other 2 games on your 8 game schedule.

East
Ohio State ---> (Iowa, Wisconsin, or Missouri)
Michigan ---> Minnesota (Little Brown Jug)
Michigan State ---> Penn State (Land Grant Trophy)
Purdue ---> (Iowa, Wisconsin, or Missouri)
Indiana ---> (Iowa, Wisconsin, or Missouri)
Illinois ---> Northwestern (Sweet Sioux Tomahawk/Land of Lincoln Trophy)

West
Iowa ---> (Ohio State, Purdue, or Indiana)
Wisconsin ---> (Ohio State, Purdue, or Indiana)
Minnesota ---> Michigan (Little Brown Jug)
Penn State ---> Michigan State (Land Grant Trophy)
Northwestern ---> Illinois (Sweet Sioux Tomahawk/Land of Lincoln Trophy)
Missouri ---> (Ohio State, Purdue, or Indiana)

The only rivalries you lose are Ohio State-Penn State (No Trophy), and the Missouri-Illinois game (unofficial rivalry).
Last edited by Single L on Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby z-man » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:46 am

so what are they going to do with the name of their conference after all of this goes down...copy the dominate conference's name and call themselves the big 12's little brother?? Or the micro-12...or the big 10+2...or the crapsticks...

I just don't get it...shouldn't the big 10 have........10 teams??
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Postby Single L » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:51 am

I don't see them dropping a team ....... and I don't forsee them dropping the Big Ten Name ....... might be hard to sneak a 12 beside the "T" :lol:
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Postby SARG27044 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:56 am

z-man wrote:so what are they going to do with the name of their conference after all of this goes down...copy the dominate conference's name and call themselves the big 12's little brother?? Or the micro-12...or the big 10+2...or the crapsticks...

I just don't get it...shouldn't the big 10 have........10 teams??
Well theyve been the Big Ten for years with 11 teams.....I dont see them changing the name. Maybe the Big North? Great Lakes Conference? yeah thats gay....Right now I think its a joke that ND can get a BCS spot with no conference. Ive been hearing that ND has wanted to join the Big Ten for years now
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Postby Like_Water » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:00 pm

I'd love the Hawks to have a chance to smash Nebraska more often. :twisted:
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Postby GaW27166 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:49 pm

Pitt would be my number one choice. Nebraska would be awful because I would have to deal with their retarted fanbase. Leave them in the Big 12. Missouri would never win in the big Ten and neither would Rutgers or ISU. So Pitt it is. ND doesnt want any part of the Big Ten or any conference. They wouldnt be able to play teams like, Navy, Nevada, Uconn, Washington and Washington State every week.
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Re: Big Ten - 12th Team

Postby IHearChains » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:54 pm

Couple of comments.
1. In terms of university strength in research (which matters to college presidents who make the decision), Pitt and Iowa St are clearly better than all the others on the list including ND.
2. Since it is football season everyone is thinking football now, and wanting to make sure these divisions are balanced from the football perspective. But hoops can't do a full schedule of 22 conf games home and away against everyone, so the division structure will be important there too. The divisions posted at the top are way unbalanced for hoops. (Then again both sport's top teams could be way different 10 or 20 years down the road, so who knows.)
Last edited by IHearChains on Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ghstinshll » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:55 pm

IA and NE used to play on a somewhat regular OOC schedule - and I do't think one team chose to end the agreement, but mutually did so. Missouri would get PUMMELED coming back to play against Iowa again, regardless of recent success. :-) What Team would fit? Many would, it should be a team that fits the league, but then again Ind and PU don't - and they still get owned. I'm really unsure of who to bring in, unless there was a MAC team to move up, into the B10, or possibly Cinci could be a creative idea. I'm not sold on their success though - they'll slide back down after they lose their coach this year and become a regular Big east school again. Would there be any ACC teams that'd switch? VT?

Just ideas - I'm kind of lost on the details of the issue, but those are at least random thoughts I've had cross my mind before.
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Postby Single L » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:26 pm

Pitt makes sense as the Big Ten already has a member in Pennsylvania. One problem is that Pitt offers nothing for the Big Ten as far as economics go. The Big Ten already has a strong hold on Pennsylvania as Penn State rules the roost in that State. The only thing to gain is the town of Pittsburg its self, which is not going to happen as it is a Pro Sports town. The biggest criteria for the Big Ten is how the expansion can increase their bottom dollar, not who you would rather see on the Football field, the issue is much bigger than that.

Another major component is academics. If the league were to expand the incoming school would have to be an Association of American Universities Member. This would leave you with Iowa State, Missouri, Nebraska, Rutgers, Syracuse and Pitt as the only viable options. Another school that also fits this is Kansas, but they have never even been in the discussion. So based on academics MAC and CUSA teams are out of the discussion, unless you really want to think about adding Buffalo.
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Postby arowan21 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:56 pm

My father in law and I talked about this for a long time over thanksgiving. I believe that ND and NBC and the Big 10 could reach an agreement where the tv contract could be kept between NBC and ND. So i believe this is a smaller issue than its made out to be.

I do believe that Pitt would be a better team to join, good in both basketball and football and i believe ranked in wrestling too.
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Postby IHearChains » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:00 pm

porkchop wrote:Another major component is academics. If the league were to expand the incoming school would have to be an Association of American Universities Member. This would leave you with Iowa State, Missouri, Nebraska, Rutgers, Syracuse and Pitt as the only viable options. Another school that also fits this is Kansas, but they have never even been in the discussion. So based on academics MAC and CUSA teams are out of the discussion, unless you really want to think about adding Buffalo.


Also must be Carnegie RU/VH classification meaning Very High research activity levels (this used to be called "Research 1" classification). There are 96 such universities and all current Big-10 members are among them. Notre Dame is, but Syracuse is not.

[url]http://classifications.carnegiefoundation.org/lookup_listings/srp.php?clq={%22basic2005_ids%22%3A%2215%22}&start_page=standard.php&backurl=standard.php&limit=0,50[/url]
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Postby Single L » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:15 pm

arowan21 wrote:I do believe that Pitt would be a better team to join, good in both basketball and football and i believe ranked in wrestling too.


The National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics have the Director's Cup every year, which measures athletic programs entirely. It's essentially a measure of athletic diversity and success, awarding schools that not only participate in many sports, but compete at a high level.

In last year's Division I rankings...

Michigan 5th
Ohio State 10th
Minnesota 14th
Penn State 19th
Illinois 20th
Notre Dame 21st
Michigan State 27th
Missouri 36th
Purdue 38th
Wisconsin 41st
Northwestern 44th
Iowa 45th
West Virginia 50th
Indiana 55th
Iowa State 58th
Syracuse 63rd
Boston College 75th
Rutgers 92nd
Pittsburgh 93rd


Schools mentioned as potential Big 10 expansion targets

The rankings are available here.
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Postby Single L » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:24 pm

What perked my interest in this topic was a segment on the local sports talk show in DSM this morning.

Here is the link to the Podcast - the segment is titled 12/14 Second Hour - the discussion starts at the 23 minute mark.
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Postby discgolfduval » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:43 pm

I was going to say Corey if you didnt cite some sources here, for example Miller and Deace, I was going to have to call you out. Deace seemed positive that Missouri would be the best fit. How about the UNI Panthers?
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Postby Single L » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:14 pm

discgolfduval wrote:I was going to say Corey if you didnt cite some sources here, for example Miller and Deace, I was going to have to call you out. Deace seemed positive that Missouri would be the best fit. How about the UNI Panthers?


I interested in the idea from them. But I also did some research to form my own opinion, and in the end I agree with Deace about Missouri.

You should see this guys page on my Missouri is the best fit. If you go to first post and read backwards it makes more sense.

As far as UNI goes ........ you’re a moron :roll:
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