What's Bugging Clue

Post questions and comments to Justin McLuen the Iowa State Coordinator

Moderator: Clue

Postby GDL17921 » Wed May 11, 2011 11:32 am

IHearChains wrote:
SARG27044 wrote:Thats how Ive always thought dubs was supposed to play...Would one person putting from a disc, missing, then the next person mark that disc and putt from that be under the same rule? Its not a huge diff, but it is a diff lie IMO



I thought I read somewhere that is illegal, that if the first person putts from the disc the second player is not allowed to mark it and putt from the mini.


you did
User avatar
GDL17921
 
Posts: 8556
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:57 am
Location: on a rock

Postby SARG27044 » Wed May 11, 2011 11:34 am

i know its not allowed, but it seems to be a similar situation to people shooting from 2 diff spots....
SARG27044
 
Posts: 6724
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: D.M.

Postby irban » Wed May 11, 2011 11:39 am

GDL17921 wrote:
IHearChains wrote:
SARG27044 wrote:Thats how Ive always thought dubs was supposed to play...Would one person putting from a disc, missing, then the next person mark that disc and putt from that be under the same rule? Its not a huge diff, but it is a diff lie IMO



I thought I read somewhere that is illegal, that if the first person putts from the disc the second player is not allowed to mark it and putt from the mini.


you did

Where? I thought we already decided there weren't any rules posted. I actually did this one time on Saturday, and didn't think anything of it. But I can see the point. Guess I was thinking the lie is really the same, just a different way to mark it.
~~~- ¥
User avatar
irban
 
Posts: 5238
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:31 am
Location: A State of Minds. (the idiot who thought this was clever is back, did you notice?)

Postby irban » Wed May 11, 2011 11:44 am

Cydisc wrote:At any rate, there really isn't any concrete rule for the format, so however you call it, as the TD, is the correct way.

Really? Don't you think the statement below signifies the default? I would say if the TD doesn't specify in advance that both lies are in play, you should assume only one or the other has to be used. I also think you should have both played the 25 foot lie in your example.

"Both players throw from each lie (starting with the tee shot), then the team chooses which of the resulting lies to continue play from, until the hole is completed."
~~~- ¥
User avatar
irban
 
Posts: 5238
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:31 am
Location: A State of Minds. (the idiot who thought this was clever is back, did you notice?)

Postby GDL17921 » Wed May 11, 2011 1:01 pm

not sure Brian, but I read it too. I think that it was in a different version of the doubles rules which have been updated since I read it. I tried finding it, as they have a history of the rules changes, including old rule books, but the doubles rules have just been on the site, I think.
User avatar
GDL17921
 
Posts: 8556
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:57 am
Location: on a rock

Postby grodney » Wed May 11, 2011 1:08 pm

GDL17921 wrote:
IHearChains wrote:
SARG27044 wrote:Thats how Ive always thought dubs was supposed to play...Would one person putting from a disc, missing, then the next person mark that disc and putt from that be under the same rule? Its not a huge diff, but it is a diff lie IMO



I thought I read somewhere that is illegal, that if the first person putts from the disc the second player is not allowed to mark it and putt from the mini.


you did


Was it on "the internet"?
User avatar
grodney
 
Posts: 2298
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:08 am

Postby IHearChains » Wed May 11, 2011 2:39 pm

grodney wrote:
GDL17921 wrote:
IHearChains wrote:
SARG27044 wrote:Thats how Ive always thought dubs was supposed to play...Would one person putting from a disc, missing, then the next person mark that disc and putt from that be under the same rule? Its not a huge diff, but it is a diff lie IMO



I thought I read somewhere that is illegal, that if the first person putts from the disc the second player is not allowed to mark it and putt from the mini.


you did


Was it on "the internet"?



No... I think I saw it on Joseph Smith's golden plates.
IHearChains
 
Posts: 1010
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:09 am
Location: Iowa City

Postby Cydisc » Wed May 11, 2011 3:21 pm

irban wrote:
Cydisc wrote:At any rate, there really isn't any concrete rule for the format, so however you call it, as the TD, is the correct way.

Really? Don't you think the statement below signifies the default? I would say if the TD doesn't specify in advance that both lies are in play, you should assume only one or the other has to be used. I also think you should have both played the 25 foot lie in your example.

"Both players throw from each lie (starting with the tee shot), then [b]the team chooses which of the resulting lies to continue play from, until the hole is completed."[/b]


1) Why would I do that when he made the putt?

and...

2) "If the first player throws from the wrong lie, the second player may still throw from the correct lie."

I know this was brought up earlier, but it's still open to interpetation. In the rules of disc golf, this is refered to as "Playing from another player's lie". The word "wrong" isn't used. So, in this case, the "wrong" lie could be any lie other than the one "chosen by the team". Remember, when Player A played from his own lie, it wasn't chosen *by the team*.
User avatar
Cydisc
 
Posts: 2332
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:41 pm
Location: Ames, IA

Postby irban » Wed May 11, 2011 3:55 pm

If he had missed it, I would have expected you to putt from 25. And why would the fact that the first player threw before consulting make it the wrong lie? It was right enough for him to throw.

Regardless what the intention of the pdga with that statement, it seems to be implied that both players play from the same lie, not whatever each considers to be the best shot. Otherwise it really isn't best shot doubles is it, it's some other game.

Here is from wikipedia in the ball golf doubles section...

"Scramble: also known as ambrose or best-shot; each player in a team tees off on each hole, and the players decide which shot was best. Every player then plays their second shot from within a clublength of where the best shot has come to rest, and the procedure is repeated until the hole is finished. In a champagne scramble, each player in a team tees off on each hole. The best drive is used and all players play their own ball from this spot."
~~~- ¥
User avatar
irban
 
Posts: 5238
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:31 am
Location: A State of Minds. (the idiot who thought this was clever is back, did you notice?)

Postby Cydisc » Wed May 11, 2011 4:01 pm

irban wrote:Regardless what the intention of the pdga with that statement, it seems to be implied that both players play from the same lie, not whatever each considers to be the best shot. Otherwise it really isn't best shot doubles is it, it's some other game.


I think the name implies that they play from the *best lie*.
User avatar
Cydisc
 
Posts: 2332
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:41 pm
Location: Ames, IA

Postby SARG27044 » Thu May 12, 2011 6:33 am

Cydisc wrote:
irban wrote:Regardless what the intention of the pdga with that statement, it seems to be implied that both players play from the same lie, not whatever each considers to be the best shot. Otherwise it really isn't best shot doubles is it, it's some other game.


I think the name implies that they play from the *best lie*.
As in singular... If it said best lie(s) then maybe I could understand playing from any shot you prefer.
SARG27044
 
Posts: 6724
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: D.M.

Postby GDL17921 » Thu May 12, 2011 7:22 am

so if a player, say Fausch, runs ahead and makes a sixty footer from his partner's lie, then discovers his drive that he said "oh no!" to is 45 feet closer to the basket with a wide open 15 footer, is his made putt from the "wrong lie" null and void?
User avatar
GDL17921
 
Posts: 8556
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:57 am
Location: on a rock

Postby cgkdisc » Thu May 12, 2011 8:00 am

As I understand it (since Houck wrote the current doubles rules), if a player plays from one of their lies and the partner decides to shoot from their other lie (including deciding to mark with a mini), the potential new lie from the first throw cannot be selected for their next throw if they didn't hole out because it was made "from the wrong lie."

Let's say their two lies are about 20 feet from the basket and player A doinks the putt and it drops by the basket. Partner B decides to putt out from their other lie and the shot hits the basket and rolls down a hill OB. The team has to play from the shot that went OB and not the first shot that landed by the basket because that became a shot "from the wrong lie" once the partner threw from the other lie.
cgkdisc
 
Posts: 496
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:01 pm
Location: Twin Cities

Postby GDL17921 » Thu May 12, 2011 8:05 am

Chuck, what about the verbiage regarding if I play from behind my disc, then my partner can't mark the disc and pick it up (change the lie). Didn't that used to exist, and is it no longer applicable or what? I'm not imagining that I read that somewhere am I?
User avatar
GDL17921
 
Posts: 8556
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:57 am
Location: on a rock

Postby cgkdisc » Thu May 12, 2011 8:20 am

I don't think there have been older rules for doubles other than what is posted. Now it's possible that a TD, even Houck, may have added the clause that you are suggesting at a doubles event you played. But what that might have meant is that the second player cannot mark the lie with a mini such that both throws by the team can be considered for their next lie, just the second throw from the mini because the first is negated once the mini marked their lie.
cgkdisc
 
Posts: 496
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:01 pm
Location: Twin Cities

PreviousNext

Return to Ask the State Coordinator

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron