Possible Carlisle course

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Postby rightcunnin » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:30 pm

I'm gonna have to go with Hendricks Gin.
I'm sorry that the middle of my sentence interrupted the beginning of yours.
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Postby irban » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:39 pm

Buzzznation wrote:
10up wrote: That being said, the focus no longer needs to be on quantity. We have that statistic dominated by a mile already. The focus should be on quality.


Very nicely put and couldn't agree with you more. But why can't we have both. It's not like the time and efforts put forth by the select few at the Norwalk course took away from improving our already prestigious courses in the DSM Metro area. Unless I missed something I don't think any money was withdrawn from the DSM Club to help fund the Norwalk Course.

In Carlisle, I mainly would hate to see them throw in a poorly designed course, when they could spend the same amount of time and money in a different, more well suited park. Why not put in a little due diligence. Before you design a 6 hole course in a crowded park, why don't you see if they have some other land available? That way they have a course in Carlisle, and it is good.
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Postby Sprague » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:21 pm

That's the only park that would fit a course, maybe south park - but the same size. Carlisle's other course is Ewing!
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Postby irban » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:31 pm

Well, they're screwed then.

Maybe you could talk them into acquiring some land to put in a Chris Sprague favorite son disc golf course.
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Postby ghstinshll » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:53 pm

why don't you see if they have some other land available?


That is exactly what I am going to do. They do have some, and it is not South park. Guys, I said I learned a lesson from Norwalk - diligence was my goal to begin with. A safe layout was the foocus. An alternate hole count design adds more to that, and following through on the alternate site adds more... Thanks. I appreciate everyone's advice on things to look out for.

Let me re-state that this park will fit a nice pitch n putt. :wink: I will share the options with the city and let them choose.
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Postby puppetmaster » Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:18 pm

Ok, now that I’ve read everything, I'd like to set the record straight.

Jason (ghost) had about 3 to 5% in the way I (YES I SAID I) designed the course. So I hope that stops the personal attacks that Have been thrown his way. Don’t even say that you haven't been on the attack, any fool can read between the lines and see what’s really being said.

Funny thing is, I remember when a person posted about the designer in the Norwalk forum and most of you came unglued about it. So what’s the difference now. I have a feeling that a lot of people (from previous posts commits) don’t care for him because he wants to be involved. That’s the difference between a lot of people on this forum and me, I'll tell a person to their face, not hide behind a key board. I called Jason today and was pissed and told him so. Doesn't mean that I don’t want him around or a slam in anyway. He just knows that I'm pissed. He is still a good man and I will be there for him if he needs my help or want my advise and I'm sure he would do the same for me. Yea, he may be overzealous but he has a good heart and wants what’s best for people in general instead of for himself.

Lets talk a little bit of history, WINDFLOWER; started in the mid 80s for mainly lower middle class people (they targeted single mothers) which means that most of the kids were unsupervised and can you guess where they hung out. Yep, Windflower park. Why, because nothing happens there. It was a dead park. A shelter that was rented out once in a while and that’s it. NOTHING.... (I will address the pool in a while) Now can we all guess what the kids did at the park, vandalize, vandalize and when that became old, they would vandalize more. Do you think that people wanted to go to windflower park so they could see all the shit they wrote everywhere and see all the garbage they throw everywhere..... Then they decided to put in a small playground for little kids and it did get used; about a half a dozen times by small children then the punks started hanging out there so again, NOTHING...... Then someone had a brain fart and decided to put in a skate park for the bastards. Oh boy, wasn’t that smart. Can we all guess what happened to the park.

Now we come to the part where you all can start slamming me. We (a friend and me) came up with a disc golf course, why, because the sport is mainly played by adults and the punks wouldn't like hanging around if they couldn't tear the place to hell. Did it work; Yep, we are now repairing 75% less than what we use to. Am I sorry I built it, NOT ONE BIT. Did I make mistakes? (will address later)

Now, lets start on some rebuttals; Cydisc wrote [/quote] In the same sense that Windflower fits 12?
Plan and as simple as I can put it, How many courses have we all been to that we didn’t enjoy or like the flow or just plan disliked for one reason or another. Do we go back just to make sure we hate it, NO, we just plan and simple don’t go back and we tell our friends why we didn't like it. Cities spend money for the citizens of their communities, Not for you and me. They hope others will appreciate it, but that is not why they did it. Their are a lot of people that do not get out for one reason or another and they want something close by that they can do. Plan and simple; (and this is coming out of my mouth) if you don’t like it, don’t come back. I will not miss you. I built it for Norwalk and others that want a small little course. I did what I thought was right and to this date, have not received one complaint from a citizen of Norwalk, only thanks. Did I try to design it like a Ewing or Walnut Ridge; NO, never did I ever try to, not enough room or terrain.

10up wrote
or in the; it's a dangerous, cramped, and bland course that does absolutely nothing to further the sport and in a variety of very likely situations can actually do more harm to the people who decide to play there (and those that just happen to be there) rather than driving 15 minutes to play on something well designed sense?
Has it ever accrued to you that some people don’t want to go to a big long course. Not everyone has the arm for a lot of those baskets and some people don’t like to walk that much.
Dangerous and well designed; Lets look Ewing, have you known anyone that has hit a car while throwing, how about hole 3 and 18? Maybe you haven't but what about some moron (more to come on this too) that came from Norwalk or Carlisle that isn’t that good at directing there disc correctly. How about Grandview, its a park that is used a lot by people not playing golf. Hole 8 is close to a shelter, lets pull it. Hole 4 goes straight for the bathrooms, lets pull it, hole 9 is mighty close to the parking lot, lets pull it. I can keep going if you want me to. Look at Madrid, VERY Small 12 hole and people rave about it. That is their #1 park and people play in it all the time, plus people golf in it at the same time. Oh, let me guess, a professional designed it, right? Must be ok if someone with a big name put it in. (just for the record, I do not have a clue who put it in but I enjoy it every time I go there). But, hay, its dangerous so lets pull it. Damn, looks to me that now we can all go down to J&B, that’s the only course that we wont risk hitting the general public. Close the rest of them, someone might get hit and sue the city.

Cydise wrote
I just thought it would have served better as a traditional 9 hole course and avoided some of the conflicts with the skate park, shelter and pool.
Now for the pool; if anyone and I do mean anyone could hit anyone at the pool, they had better put up the disc golf bag and go find a white walking stick. Sounds to me as you have never been to Norwalk, the only way you could hit the pool is if you went out of your way to try and even then, I don’t think you could.

Irban wrote
Is it big enough for a 9?
and Porkchop answered
Doesn't look like it
,
while looking at a picture
Come on, the least you could do is see the real thing. Pictures can be conceiving.
Ghost posted on Aug 29th
If by ANY chance, anyone feels that this was a step in the wrong direction, let me know. If anyone else wants to champion this, let me know as well. I just simply wanted to use my relationship w/ the city (while a weak one) to feel them out & make a handoff if necessary.
Did anyone go out there to walk around to see if it was possible or a few going off their photographic memory and just saying no by memory of the park. The least some of you could have done was go and walk. After all, its only 15 minutes from Ewing.......

Clue wrote
The problem arises when inexperienced hacks arrogantly put themselves in charge of something they have no experience or expertise in.
I'm just saying at some point you have to get some advice from somebody who knows what they are doing.
Norwalk could've been the same way, and it's a shame that it isn't because you guys were too proud to ask for help.
This may be hard to follow, when I first posted on the forum about a possible course in Norwalk, I did ask for help because I was told about a great bunch of guys that could lead me in the correct direction. I don’t know what happened to that thread, I believe it was deleted because I didn't know to follow on the same thread. Saying all that, take a look at Jason's post on Jan 24th 2007
Here's a copy of Gary's post from his 2nd thread, so we can keep this in one running thread.
Quote:

Ok, the update. Talked to Nancy today to see if anyone has contacted her yet and she said no. I asked if it would help and she said yes, the more phone calls she can get and e-mails she received, the better the chance of influencing her committee. They are the ones that we have to convince.
She also said that NO-ONE ever shows up to the meetings except to bitch so if we had a large # of people to show up, the better yet are chances are. Their next meeting is Feb. 7th at 7:00 at the Police station. I would like to know if any of you would be willing to show up, she said if to many people want to come to let her know so she can change the meeting place to a larger area. Please let me know.
She is going to get me a map of windflower park so we can come up with a design. If any of you would like to meet with me in the evening at the library, I could use as much input as I can get.
As of today I have received $400.00 more in pledges, that makes 500 so far and we are planning on hopefully more, anyone have other options, please let me know. Please call or e-mail her,
Thanks, Gary L
Nancy 515-981-9206 or parksandrec@mchsi.com <parksandrec@mchsi.com>
SO, where was everyone? Damn, I sure am sorry that I'm so damn arrogant. Yes it would have been nice to get some feed back, too bad you wasn't around and apparently no one here was around then too, huh........

And how about your commit (some call it bragging) about Pickard, Hole 8, throwing down buy the bridge. I hit a lady on the bridge. She was no where in site when I throw but sure enough, there she was after words. Should she have been able to sue the city for me hitting her. Hole 1, I'm sure no-one has ever hit a parked car. I wonder has anyone fishing around basket 4 and 5 ever been hit. It also is a great course, I love to play there but come on, we play 99% of our game in city parks.

Clue wrote
Most people are morons
Lets think about how we posted that.
#1 this web page is read by a lot of people throughout the state. Is it possible that a city somewhere is considering putting in a disc golf course and where would they go; ASK THE STATE COORDINATOR , now lets see where to look, WOW, LOOK, just so happens that Carlisle is thinking about it lets read,
I hope you get my point. Not only have you just called a few people morons. You and a few others have just dogged a person for trying to do what he thought was right. Do you think they want people like us going to their cities to play. We are rude, we attack one another, we brag about being assholes, should I go on.

10up wrote
The reason I said it was selfish (and this applies to Norwalk as well) is because you walked into a park which gets plenty of use for what it is and said to yourself "Gee, I could cram x number of frisbee holes in here to play" with no regard for whether or not the park needed it. Disc Golf is an amazing tool for improving parks that are in need of it and have the land to do it well. It is, however, not something that every park needs and when you attempt to push it upon a place and population that has no use for it you are being, in short, selfish.
Refer to History
I'd imagine if I had seen someone in a small park putting at a basket, asked what it was, was told about the sport, and pointed to a Ewing, or Pickard, or Walnut, or even Grandview, it would've been a much more enticing and majestic experience. Not to mention you're much more likely to run into someone who can really grandfather you into the sport at one of those places.
Grandfather you in, OK, so where is everyone when I teeing off with my stupid skip I do. Why doesn't anyone walk up to me and tell me what I'm doing wrong and try to spend 5 minutes of their time so I can improve on that. In all the time I have been playing, besides Ghost, not one person has ever offered a suggestion to me. That’s a joke. In a small town with a small course you are much more likely to see and talk with others to learn. One time in Des Moines I was watching a guy tee off and he asked me not to watch him so close, he thought I was going to tackle him (must be my smiley face). Yea, we sure do teach one another a lot, don't we.

Last quote 10up wrote
It's like giving a retard a hammer and a box of nails.
You know, I don’t have the education that you do so tell me if my analogy is correct; is that like giving a retard a keyboard and a forum to post?


In closing, Have I made mistakes, you bet I have, Will things change, they always do. What none of you know is a year ago I went to Nancy and told her my mistake with the skate park and Basket 2. I have a fix but everything cost money which takes taxpayers money that they don’t want to spend. Will it get fixed, sooner or later (personally I want to rip the skate park out) but until then, that’s our job when we see someone throwing dangerously to point it out and maybe suggest something else.

And as far as Dan saying your proud of being an asshole, I have you by 20 years, my mother hasn't talked to me in 13 years, my wife dislikes me , the damn dog tries to bite me everyday, co-workers hate me with a passion and the state hates me so much, they gave me my own 10 digit number. I think its pretty safe to say that I won that one. And what did I win, I have 7 of my own teeth left. I hope you learn you get more out of being a person than being an asshole.

I may not have many true friends (my choice) but the one I do have, are everything a person needs in life. And they know I wont stab them in their back or on a forum.


Whoever the Administrator or Moderator is for this part, I hope you see how this hole thing has gotten out of control and erase it in a week or two. Here we are wanting to build the sport and all that has been succeeded was tearing done the sport. (my opinion)
'Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming 'WOO HOO, What a Ride'
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Postby shane » Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:57 am

I think all that anyone was saying is that 9 would of fit better then 12. I don't know I've never played the course. I also believe that was the general thought for Carlisle. I don't know I've never been to the park.
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Postby The Donator » Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:56 am

That post was way, way too long, for many reasons.
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Postby IHearChains » Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:41 am

Whoever the Administrator or Moderator is for this part, I hope you see how this hole thing has gotten out of control and erase it in a week or two. Here we are wanting to build the sport and all that has been succeeded was tearing done the sport. (my opinion)


:idea:
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Postby irban » Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:45 pm

He has a point though. Where was everybody at the meeting? It is easy to say you should get input, but if no one steps up to provide it, pretty soon you're on your own. It's probably not very glamorous to get involved with some of the smaller local efforts. I say, more power to whoever is trying I suppose. Maybe send course maps of proposed designs to a few people to get input, but if they don't endeavor to come down to see it, full speed ahead.

One thing though. Even if you don't know how to design the best hole, you can keep it clear of other course uses. Don't put the basket by the dugout etc.
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Postby SARG27044 » Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:03 pm

great post! u r 2 correct sir on many of your arguments
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Postby Abe Froman » Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:50 am

The Donator wrote:That post was way, way too long, for many reasons.
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Postby 10up » Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:54 pm

projectpuffindiscman wrote:
The Donator wrote:That post was way, way too long, for many reasons.


I'm on that train.
you're not the girl you think you are
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Postby puppetmaster » Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:11 pm

10up Wrote
I'm on that train.


another analogy you could have said was I'm on that little bus.
'Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming 'WOO HOO, What a Ride'
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Postby 10up » Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:10 am

it's "short bus" dumbass :roll:
you're not the girl you think you are
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