Possible Carlisle course

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Postby Single L » Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:17 pm

ghstinshll wrote: Pay to play?

This is not an anomaly ...... some of the best courses in the country are Pay-to-Play and most are very well cared for and helmet free. We need more of these in Iowa, maybe even a DG Resort.

Maple Hill (MA), The Grange (VA), Giants Ridge (MN), Sandy Point (WI), The Circle R Ranch (TX), J&B Rolling Hills (IA), Treasure Cove (IA), Standing Rocks (WI), Highbridge Complex (WI), La Mirada (CA), Blue Ribbon Pines (MN), Vallarta-Ast/Token Creek (WI), and any ski resort course you can think of.
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Postby Clue » Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:25 pm

ghstinshll wrote:Now, what makes a good course designer? A pro player? Should it be that exclusive?

No, it should be way more exclusive than that. Most disc golfers are morons. Not that morons are unique to disc golf, it's just that most people are morons and the percentage holds true in disc golf.
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Postby ghstinshll » Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:27 pm

Is treasure cove truly a pay to play course though? I know they ask for a couple bucks to play, but what about the others? Are they expensive? I wouldn't consider a few bucks something that's truly pay to play thuogh. I consider that a good will/karma donation. :wink:
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Postby Single L » Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:37 pm

A good majority of pay to play courses have no facilities or the bank roll to have someone attending the course and taking fees. So most PTP courses are on an honor system. The amount doesn't matter because if you honor the system and "Pay to play" than it's a PTP course. The courses that have facilities to have an attendant, like ski resorts, usually cost more and have amenities that aren’t not found elsewhere, like ski lifts, chalets, snack bars, and pro shops. At these places disc golf is a second, third, or fourth source of income.
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Postby ghstinshll » Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:44 pm

gotcha... That's promising to hear that most of them are reasonable, and use the honor system.
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Postby Clue » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:35 pm

I think Houck's ranches were $5/round or $10 all day. San Saba might've been slightly more. I think I payed $8 for a round at Giant's Ridge in northern Minnesota. I have no idea what I payed for that place in Wisconsin that hosted worlds.
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Postby Sprague » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:40 pm

nobody said anything about needing to be a "pro" or second class citizen to some.

Clue said that Gator made a huge decision on 18 at Pickard, Gator is the opposite of a "pro". I think the point Clue is making, is that being certified or qualified is a matter of experience. What many players lack that maybe a Pro would have is exposure to the good the bad and the ugly in volume - makes avoiding the bad and ugly a lot easier on your own course.

I've played 300+ courses, I've listened to what people like and don't like, I've paid attention to differences in opinion, I worked on 5 courses before ever designing one, it's those types of things that make a player qualified to design. But beyond that you have to have an artistic view of things and be forward thinking about considerations that need made and that comes with experience. Plus I've played on courses designed by some of the best designers in the world and so has Clue and Kenton and Claring - all people I would say are qualified to design. And only one of them is a pro...
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Postby Sprague » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:42 pm

sorry are we talking about something else now...catching up reading.
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Postby Cydisc » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:54 pm

Sprague wrote:Clue and Kenton and Claring - all people I would say are qualified to design. And only one of them is a pro...


Are we supposed to guess?
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Postby Clue » Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:58 pm

Cydisc wrote:
Sprague wrote:Clue and Kenton and Claring - all people I would say are qualified to design. And only one of them is a pro...


Are we supposed to guess?

I'm pretty sure it's you.
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Postby 10up » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:19 pm

Alright, I suppose I'll have to be a little more clear. This may take a bit but I encourage the reader to pull through.

The reason I said it was selfish (and this applies to Norwalk as well) is because you walked into a park which gets plenty of use for what it is and said to yourself "Gee, I could cram x number of frisbee holes in here to play" with no regard for whether or not the park needed it. Disc Golf is an amazing tool for improving parks that are in need of it and have the land to do it well. It is, however, not something that every park needs and when you attempt to push it upon a place and population that has no use for it you are being, in short, selfish. It's like if I owned small bar and decided to put a bowling lane in it because I like bowling. I might get a kick out of it when I didn't have the time to go to a real bowling alley, but for the most part nobody would come because its (and this is the good part) obnoxious. And in some Frisbee course's regard, dangerous.

The reason I said it is short-sighted is because the amount of players you actually succeed in bringing into the sport is negligible at best. On top of that, those that potentially do play for the first time (and decide they like it) will invariably find out that there are real courses less than 15 minutes away. Those that play and don't like it are actually being deprived of the genuine experience which is available at a multitude of other places.

Which all leads to pointless, and no, you have absolutely no idea.

Personally I love Chris' idea of a few practice baskets. It's brilliant in that it would give the golfers of Carlisle a good place to go throw some practice putts after work and also raises probably close to the same amount of interest as to what the sport is. I'd imagine if I had seen someone in a small park putting at a basket, asked what it was, was told about the sport, and pointed to a Ewing, or Pickard, or Walnut, or even Grandview, it would've been a much more enticing and majestic experience. Not to mention you're much more likely to run into someone who can really grandfather you into the sport at one of those places.

[/rant]

And Ghost, I really didn't mean to give you the impression that I'm an asshole, seriously. Give me a shout sometime, we can have some juice and talk about Anime, I may even bring my magic set...
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Postby ghstinshll » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:01 pm

I guess we have differing views of the sport then. I am not an elitist who thinks that PK or EW are the Only kind of course that should be created. Part of what this sport should be about, is sharing the knowledge, sharing the love of nature, and sharing the physical wonder of a 400' hyzer flip for deuce.

That's fine, let's agree to disagree. My game has become MUCH better because of Norwalk, as have MANY beginners whom I've had the pleasure of coaching.

I'm sure you love your life of playing for cash, playing because you're better than me, and in the 'good ol boy' club... I guess I have differing views of the sport. Some day when you're world champ you can have that elitist attitude, but for now you're doing nothing to further the sport. For example, kind hearts like Jay & Des embody this sport, not people like you. I may be selfish, but I get GREAT returns form t his sport, returns which you will never receive.

You had already established yourself as an asshole Dan through years of responses that simply painted that image for yourself. You can burn your magic set - as if you even had one. Nice try, but I can see the BS through the trees, and take your juice as a completely facetious attempt.
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Postby 10up » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:57 pm

ghstinshll wrote:I guess we have differing views of the sport then. I am not an elitist who thinks that PK or EW are the Only kind of course that should be created. Part of what this sport should be about, is sharing the knowledge, sharing the love of nature, and sharing the physical wonder of a 400' hyzer flip for deuce.


We absolutely have different views and you, apparently, are not nearly as open to "learning" as you say. Listen, the fact that I prefer Pickard or Ewing or f'n Southwoods has absolutely no bearing on my stance, nor does it qualify me as an "elitist". Please, don't misconstrue my condescension as anything other than what it is. And nobody is buying the "it's about the joyousness and camaraderie of sharing the sport and 400 foot 'hyzer flips' (which you can't throw in Norwalk btw) and all I want to do is reach out to the people and to let them be happy!" Please.... There is more course per mile, per person, in a 30 square radius of this city than anywhere else in the world. The addition of some poorly planned, cramped, obnoxious suckjob will be nothing but detrimental to the subject of your little diatribe there, so you can go pander that bs somewhere else.

ghstinshll wrote:That's fine, let's agree to disagree. My game has become MUCH better because of Norwalk, as have MANY beginners whom I've had the pleasure of coaching.


Again, Please... Regardless of how much Norwalk has "improved" your game it doesn't justify the ends. If you were truly selfless in the endeavor and truly focused on furthering your abilities you'd be standing in a soccer field throwing 150 shots a day and throwing putts in your backyard (or a nice practice basket at the park by your house). So what have you really done? You built a little treehouse for you and your cronies to hang where you can feel like king shit. But no one with half a brain and any desire to "really play" (as you put it) would even consider playing it if they were given the the whole story from the start. Who's an elitist?

ghstinshll wrote:I'm sure you love your life of playing for cash, playing because you're better than me, and in the 'good ol boy' club... I guess I have differing views of the sport. Some day when you're world champ you can have that elitist attitude, but for now you're doing nothing to further the sport. For example, kind hearts like Jay & Des embody this sport, not people like you. I may be selfish, but I get GREAT returns form t his sport, returns which you will never receive.


This is another thing we should probably address:

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I wouldn't know you if I passed you in the frichin' grocery store. What makes you think I'm better than you? I'm horrible. And to what "good ole' just sayin boy" club do you refer? Half the people on this forum couldn't give a shit less what I say and probably would prefer I shut the Chuck up in most cases. Don't fool yourself into thinking that I'm writing from behind some shroud of more experienced and respected players. I make my own opinions regardless of whether or not Spraguer or McLuen or Kenton or Greenwood or Corey or whoever the hell else it is to whom you're referring agrees with me. It just so happens that some of the time (mind you, not nearly all, but some) it's at least semi in-line.

ghstinshll wrote:You had already established yourself as an asshole Dan through years of responses that simply painted that image for yourself. You can burn your magic set - as if you even had one. Nice try, but I can see the BS through the trees, and take your juice as a completely facetious attempt.


Glad you picked up on that one, I'd feel bad if I were cracking on somebody that friggin slow.
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Postby ghstinshll » Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:57 am

I shut the Chuck up


Now there's a suggestion.

You built a little treehouse for you and your cronies to hang where you can feel like king shit.


You are such a tool, adn it's got nothing to do with Cronies. I made friends through that exercise. And apparently you don't give tips to other players & guide them in their advancement. Things like that don't mean jack to some piece like you.

I do practice - @ the high school, @ the soccer fields, and the rugby fields. I do practice putting, on a pretty regular basis.
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Postby SARG27044 » Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:45 am

more power to ya ghost! i say put a basket on every street corner, if theres room for a course (small or large) and the city wants it, then do it. i think its kinda bullshit that your getting so much shit for wanting a course where none of these guys are gonna play on a regular basis. i love pitch and putts, and no matter what anyone says they do help your game, maybe not your DISTANCE THROWS, but everyone needs practise and this course could help bring the next big pro outta the wood works
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