New Sanctioning agreement

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New Sanctioning agreement

Postby peyton » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:42 pm

Steve,

I don't know if you will have the answer for this or not but I am going to ask. I just looked over the changes for next year and the one that kind of bites is the $10 fee for non members in B & C tier events. Doesn't this kind of bite the locals that don't travel and undermine the purpose of the smaller events? Would you know who I can bark at in the PDGA? I don't normally say much about the changes but it seems every year lately they raise something to pay for something else.
For Legion last year I would have had to pay $600. Doesn't really make sense to me.

Thanks, sorry to hear you are stepping down. It had to be tough with a family to do that. Thanks for doing it though.
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Postby Cydisc » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:23 am

Hey, Doug.

Yep, that one kind of slapped me in the face when I was considering sanctioning my Iowa Games tournament this year. I thought, since Iowa Games is for some the first exposure they have to tournament play, that it would be a perfect opportunity to give them some exposure to the PDGA as well. This new non-member fee would be sure to scare most of them away, so I decided against it. If they're trying to spur yearly membership growth, I think they've stepped in the wrong direction.

As for your question, the Board of Directors is the body that makes these decisions.
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Postby peyton » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:40 am

Thanks Steve, I will direct my questions that way. Have a good weekend.
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Postby puppetmaster » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:52 pm

I finally got around to sending a quick letter to PDGA. Dont know how many people see it my way, but this is how I see it.

Just want to let you know that I will not be renewing my membership. I am 44 yrs old and I will never be the greatest, nor do I want to be. Disc golf is a very fun and enjoyable sport that many are taking up. By raising your cost for tournaments for non members, you have done nothing but hurt our sport. My kids are grown and gone so I can throw away the money to help grow the sport, but many of my friends cant afford the membership and they have paid the $5.00 extra before but now since you have raised the price they will not be playing in tournaments at all. I hope I am not the only one that has decided to stop supporting you, that is the only way that I know to show you that this is not a cooperate event, but a game.

Yes, I understand that it takes money to grow the sport, but what better way to chase people off than to do what you have done. Now instead of someone paying to play in a tournament and then pay more because they are a nonmember, they may decide to do something else. There goes your cooperate PDGA..............

I hope you change your mind next year, I will be back then. But until then, Good luck
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Postby Peil » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:45 pm

For what it's worth, I agree with what you are saying. I am not a member of the PDGA nor was I planning on joining this year, but I was planning on paying the fee for a temporary membership in a tournament or two in order to see if joining the PDGA and competiting in sanctioned events was something I was interested in. The increase from $5 to $10 to play in a PDGA tournament will likely keep me from doing that this year. Many will say "it's 5 more dollars" but that on top of the entry fee is too much money for some of us. Instead I am choosing to run small, unsanctioned events in my area aimed at keeping disc golf fun and affordable. There are some that like what the PDGA is doing and that's great but I don't.
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Postby peyton » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:36 pm

Do what I did. The Legion of Doom is only sanctioned for the Pro and Advanced division. I would have a hard time explaining to intermediates and rec players that $15 of the $20 they paid to enter is going to a sanctioning body that really will never do anything for them. Pros and Advanced players are 90% of the time members and the raising of the rates does bother them. But my local players aren't at that level and do more for the disc golf courses in the area than the PDGA ever will. So instead of giving the PDGA $730 to run a 'C' tier this year, I will only be giving them maybe $250. It is only a few that are making these great changes for a club of 10,000.
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Postby D Fresh » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:14 am

What is that temp membership $$ for? A processing fee? Give me a break!

Maybe they're headed towards required membership for B and C tiers. No matter what their motives are increased membership is probably a desired outcome, and increased money of course. :x

For what? To create a couple of courses that 70% of the membership won't ever enjoy. :?
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Postby prodiscgolf » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:32 pm

Maybe their trying to address the problem of too many sanctioned tournaments. It will be easier to schedule sanctioned ones when half of the B & C Tiers are unsanctioned and they're not obligated to protect an area around those tourneys.

I don't really get it either...
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Postby puppetmaster » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:38 pm

There reply;

Thank you for your email and I’m sorry to hear you will not be renewing.



The reason you state for not renewing has a bit more insight than you may be aware of so I thought I would add more information.



The $5 nonmember fee hasn’t increased in 20 years yet the membership fees have. This has been a major complaint of our members. Playing in a sanctioned PDGA event is a member benefit. When paying the $5 nonmember fee previously, you would get nothing. This year nonmembers will receive a rulebook, stickers and a $10 coupon towards their membership to join at a later date if they wish.



I understand your concern but hope you will reconsider after hearing the specifics.



Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.



Take care,

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Postby GDL17921 » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:01 pm

At least the $10 can be applied towards a membership, the $5 in the past was just money down the drain. That's news to me. Does this change your opinion any Gary? Just curious.

It almost sounds to me like a value-added way to increase membership through non-members playing sanctioned events.

Gary, you guys should go to Doug's tournament (Legion of Doom) in May especially since he's not sanctioning the int/rec fields. It's one of the best events in Iowa. I guarantee you'll enjoy it. You can hold me to that.
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Postby peyton » Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:43 pm

I wonder if you play 5 tournaments if your membership is free then. You will have received 5 coupons = $50 = Am membership. We will wait and see what Clue does, he's always on the cutting edge.
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Postby puppetmaster » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:10 pm

GDL2000 wrote
Does this change your opinion any Gary?


to be honest, I'm not sure yet. I trying to examine both points of view (mine and theirs)

The $5 nonmember fee hasn’t increased in 20 years

I personally don't agree with the $5.00 fee in the first place. In my eyes, if someone pays and plays in a tournament and they are not members, then there score should not be brought up in the PDGA web page. But they should be able to win first place and get there award if there is any. So if a non member won in a sanctioned event, the pdga member who received 2nd in the tournament; in the pdga web page, it would say 1st place. As far as cash payouts, If the pdga put $ on it then the non member would not receive any, but if the payout was from the tournament entry fee's, then yes, the non member should win the payout.

yet the membership fees have
, I am speaking for myself when I say this, I would rather pay more the the membership than charge the nonmember more. That is the price I would pay if I wanted to be in the PDGA. If it was to high for me, then I wouldn't be a member and if the PDGA puts money in on the payouts, then that would be my lost if I wasn't a member.

Playing in a sanctioned PDGA event is a member benefit

Ok, then don't let non members play at all. if they want to play in a sanctioned event, they can become a member. Now the problem I see with this is they like the money they get from nonmembers, and they spend it also. So do they want to go to these measures, I'm guessing no.

When paying the $5 nonmember fee previously, you would get nothing. This year nonmembers will receive a rulebook, stickers
Whoppy F---, Look at me, ma, I got this neat book (only cost 26 cents to print) and wow, a PDGA sticker too..... I'm going to sleep good tonight.

[/quote]$10 coupon towards their membership to join at a later date if they wish.
OK, this I liked (see ma, mikeee does like it)

This I do know, since we built are course, we have seen a lot of kids enjoying it. three of them went and played a tournament last year because they were really getting into it. Now lets raise the price so they can go ask there parents for some more money. Now let see ma and pa say, no, to much mikeee, why don't you just go skateboarding (a new skateboard is cheaper than playing in a tournament. Now, what about a couple of my friends that have kids or that just don't have the time to play multi tournaments, they only want to play one or two a year to see how they mesure up with others and to get some idles by watching the pros play. Hell no, enough is enough.

Is it the money, not in my eyes. I throw away $5.00 every pack of smokes I buy. I'm a principle person, I fight for whats right and fight against what is wrong.

This is my opinion, and like I said, still thinking about the whole scope. that's what I like about this web page, lots of other option to read and think about, will I change my mind, I might, but not yet.

GDL2000 wrote
Gary, you guys should go to Doug's tournament (Legion of Doom) in May especially since he's not sanctioning the int/rec fields. It's one of the best events in Iowa. I guarantee you'll enjoy it. You can hold me to that[quote]
I took a road trip there last year and I loved the course, when I go to a tournament with my friends, I play int. because that is what they play. BUT, when I go to a tournament by myself, I want to play with people my age range (Masters). so it would depend on if my friends went or not. Masters sanctioned, no go. Int. un-sectioned and with my friends, lets hope.......... But as I stated b4, the jury is still out................. :?:
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Postby Single L » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:48 pm

PDGA wrote:Playing in a sanctioned PDGA event is a member benefit

mtldetect1 wrote:Ok, then don't let non members play at all. if they want to play in a sanctioned event, they can become a member. Now the problem I see with this is they like the money they get from nonmembers, and they spend it also. So do they want to go to these measures, I'm guessing no.

I do disagree with the increase from $5 to $10 for non-members, but I do agree with the PDGA on this point; playing in sanctioned tourneys is a benefit of being a member. I disagree with you about not letting non-members play. This will only limit the growth of the sport; as a rec player it's better to have the choice to pay a few more bucks to play than not have a choice at all.

In theory, sanctioned tournaments are designed to draw PDGA members over rec players, with the theory that if you are a PDGA member you are serious about the sport and want to play with others at that serious level. Reasoning why the Int and Rec fields have a ton of non-members vs. the Adv and Pro level, and why the majority of players are pro/adv vs. Int/rec.
Non-sanctioned tournament are a great way to resolve the issue you bring up. The majority of non-sanctioned tourneys are locally focused and aimed at a good time, while offering a competitive environment.

With this being said I'm not saying that you cannot be a serious golfer and non-member, it just happens to be that the majority are. I'm also not implying that non-sanctioned tourneys cannot be major events (Marshall Street), it just happens to be that the majority are locally/fun focused.

There's pros and cons to being a member vs. non-member and there's pros and cons to sanctioned vs. non-sanctioned. There's pros and cons to everything .............. Such is Life
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