St. Louis Open

Tournaments in the rest of the non Iowa world

Postby irban » Tue May 10, 2011 4:17 pm

To be honest, I've never cared for players packs. At best they are a way to use non-cash donations. I would prefer lower entry fees, since I don't cash typically. That would be a good solution for those that are in it for the competition, right? Who cares about the size of the purse, if all you want to do is prove who's better?
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Postby GDL17921 » Wed May 11, 2011 7:40 am

irban wrote: Who cares about the size of the purse, if all you want to do is prove who's better?


somebody does.....any guesses?
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Postby shane » Wed May 11, 2011 9:01 am

Beerman wrote:I dont feel like looking it up so, does the PDGA have a requirement for added cash as to which divisions it can go to.


After reading it it just says the amount of added cash for different tiers. At J&B this year we had 500 added. I ended up adding 200 to the ams and 300 to the open.
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Postby Detra319 » Wed May 11, 2011 11:03 am

Dont know how many tournies you went to last year single l but they were almost all smaller than the year before due to the larger number of events. Eventually this will lead to a market correction and players will move towards the higher quality events....but tha also assumes everyone has all the information they need about each event.
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Postby Carter45145 » Wed May 11, 2011 11:19 am

Detra319 wrote:Dont know how many tournies you went to last year single l but they were almost all smaller than the year before due to the larger number of events. Eventually this will lead to a market correction and players will move towards the higher quality events....but tha also assumes everyone has all the information they need about each event.


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Postby Single L » Wed May 11, 2011 11:53 am

Detra319 wrote:Dont know how many tournies you went to last year single l but they were almost all smaller than the year before due to the larger number of events. Eventually this will lead to a market correction and players will move towards the higher quality events....but tha also assumes everyone has all the information they need about each event.


True, but you cannot fabricate weekends; there's only so many dates for events. So if you have a full calendar and the sport and tournament play are still on the rise eventually every event will be full because there's demand for it.

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Postby Ferch » Wed May 11, 2011 10:06 pm

Single L wrote:
Detra319 wrote:Dont know how many tournies you went to last year single l but they were almost all smaller than the year before due to the larger number of events. Eventually this will lead to a market correction and players will move towards the higher quality events....but tha also assumes everyone has all the information they need about each event.


True, but you cannot fabricate weekends; there's only so many dates for events. So if you have a full calendar and the sport and tournament play are still on the rise eventually every event will be full because there's demand for it.

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Postby Detra319 » Wed May 11, 2011 10:22 pm

Single L wrote:
Detra319 wrote:Dont know how many tournies you went to last year single l but they were almost all smaller than the year before due to the larger number of events. Eventually this will lead to a market correction and players will move towards the higher quality events....but tha also assumes everyone has all the information they need about each event.


True, but you cannot fabricate weekends; there's only so many dates for events. So if you have a full calendar and the sport and tournament play are still on the rise eventually every event will be full because there's demand for it.

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Which is the problem here on both levels. In the short term I play not full tournies, which is not what I like.

In the long term, this encourages TD's to suck, because they are going to get players to come no matter what.

I think I was studying Microeconomics before I wrote that, or calculus or something. Sorry :p

Wish I knew the answer to this that wasn't prohibitively expesive...maybe higher standards for TD's? Better channels for player complaints? Someone to address the rules committee about allowing these merchant cuts? Would that even help? Or would that just drive TD's away from the sport? Maybe that is something you can do once you can assure that there will be more TD's to step in as you weed out the bad ones..,


PS This is in NO way a diss on anyone I know, just the system in general.
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Postby jlowekc » Fri May 13, 2011 10:33 am

So then after all this hot discussion, how do you feel about the high cost of the Trophy only event like I am running in KC?

$50 entry
$5 to PDGA
$3 Ace Fund
$42 left to fill players pack and buy trophies, and pay for things that the event needs:
Water, ice, restrooms, trophies, programs, etc....not including the players pack items.

(Players pack wil be driver, putter, mid-range, shirt & Towel, or 2 shirt's, koozies, stickers, etc....value will far exceed that $42 left over from entry)

I view players packs as a great way to get a product out by a Mfg that they want in the hands of the players.

Also I am one of those "sucky players that never wins" Have been for the 30+ yrs I have been playing. I like to get stuff for my entry, and as the TD of the event, guess what, I will run it in a way that makes me happy.

Jay, I am not sure how you got to the $14 deduction on the list that you gave for last year, I would love to be able to do that. I put the price at retail, not at cost, because you know what, it does cost. I don't know everyone playing, and why would I give everyone a discount for coming to my town when we work hard at making the event a fun time to play.

Now along those same lines, I think that the trophy only option is a thing that will work. I thought that the entry fee for this A-Tier in KC with the trophy only knowledge makes sense. Its less than other NT/A-Tier price points for the Am side of it, and that was on purpose.

Am's should be playing for the love of the game and the advancement of their game within the skillset that they are in. If you are wanting to get prizes for beating competition that in many cases is similar in mindset to myself (I show up to have a good time, and chuck some plastic, and yell about my poor play!). So beating the likes of me and others along those lines should entitle you to getting a reward of plastic? I think not. I am not alone on this topic, or the guidelines wouldn't be set as they are by our governing body.

Now I can go a completely different direction that maybe we go completely Trophy only and no players pack, and make the entry $30 for the A-Tier instead next year. Guess what it still costs money to run an event, and not all of us have the luxury that many in Iowa take for granted. We have FT people with other positions that give and give in our sport, and unfortunately we don't have the time to give to make each event as good as it can be, because we have to pay our regular bills.

I hope that the sport does grow, but we will continue to pay for our own events in large part. Until we get beyond that, we will have these issues, and then we will continue to see thousands of casual players not playing in our events, using our courses that a few dedicate to make better (especially pre-tourney events), and have thousands of people not renew at the PDGA level. These are issues that are more pressing that need to be addressed.

I need to sign up for the Challenge, I will see many of you in a few short weeks. Can't wait. We are spoiled in the midwest with disc golf, even if you have a few difference of opinions, some of which are valid, some of which are from people that have no knowledge of the event planning needed to make your weekend fun to play our sport, and meet friends for a lifetime of enjoyment.
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Postby DLCdisc » Fri May 13, 2011 9:30 pm

and not all of us have the luxury that many in Iowa take for granted. We have FT people with other positions that give and give in our sport, and unfortunately we don't have the time to give to make each event as good as it can be, because we have to pay our regular bills. :?: :?:

I don't understand this part?? There isn't one member of the Des Moines club that doesn't have a full time job, bills to pay, and in many cases a family to care for. Some of them invest nearly as much time in the efforts of the club as they do in their work leaving little time to enjoy the best aspect of the game --- playing it. I am sure you meant no offense by it, and I am in no place to tell someone who has been playing 25 years longer than me that their opinion is wrong. I think the solution to the problem you are describing is leaders -- if your hard work going into an event doesn't inspire others to get involved and make it better, then the approach may need to change
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