St. Louis Open

Tournaments in the rest of the non Iowa world

Postby Single L » Tue May 10, 2011 11:36 am

bergdawg wrote:Of course there are exceptions. Not every tourney can be done as good as the FCC.


That's where you are wrong. It just takes a little elbow grease and motivation ...... something anyone anywhere can apply.
"I'm not impressed with aces of any kind. 95% of the time, they're just bad shots that got lucky and happened to hit the chains. Otherwise, they'd have sailed 50' past the hole." ~ Cydisc
User avatar
Single L
 
Posts: 5981
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Bushwhacking in DSM

Postby bergdawg » Tue May 10, 2011 11:42 am

Abe Froman wrote:
bergdawg wrote:
Abe Froman wrote:
bergdawg wrote:
Abe Froman wrote:
bergdawg wrote:
Budhyzer 17696 wrote:
Abe Froman wrote: whiny bitch ass crybabies that complain about the free stuff they just got. Be thankful for getting anything in the first place people.


^^^^^^ This

I'm with ya Abe, Steve put a lot of extra CTP stuff in at the WBO and people were crying they didn't want this or that, just pissed me off. The free stuff was numbered and whatever number you picked was what you got; maybe that was the problem. After a while I kept saying, "if you don't want it, we'll give it to someone who does and appreciates it!" Spoiled little brats thinking they should get something just for showing up?



They probably want something for the money they spent on the entry fee, gas, food and other expenses, not just showing up.


They probably should play better then. This isn't 3rd grade science fair where everybody gets a ribbon. There are winners and there are non-winners. If your only concern is "what can I get out of it that's worth $ value" and not what I can gain in experience and enjoying others hard work so you have a good time. Then you have lost the point of competition amongst friends and good people. Nobody should be rewarded for just showing up. It should be considered a gesture of gratitude, not a given that's expected. That's like bitching out your grandma @ xmas for getting you the wrong G.I. Joe. My parents would slap the shit out of me if I complained about a gift.


Did it cost you thirty bucks to get into your grandma's xmas party? Fact of the matter is some people aren't good enough to ever cash. Would you want to keep dumping money into something and never see anything from it? It's just keeping the lower half of the divisions from playing tournaments. That competition and comradery you speak of can be found at a local league for 5 dollars.


Fact of the matter is, if you only play tournies to get free merch you're better off spending that 30$ on new plastic instead of wasting your weekends crying about player paks. Until you organize and facilitate a tourney or 50 you have no creedence to your argument. Please bust your ass for weeks preparing to HOST 100+ people just to hear some am or INt player bitch about their free stuff not being cool enough. It sets me off to no end. Move down if the gettin's not good enough for ya


Players packs are incentive for the Am's that know they may not cash to play.

It's getting really old whenever anyone says anything about a tournament to hear the "why don't you try to run an event." Yes, I know it's hard work and time consuming, but that doesn't mean someone can't voice their opinion, good or bad.

Why is it always bad then?you would re-think that after doing a few...

I agree with the incentive thing. But again, if u depend on a players pack to determine your personal value to attend a tourny then YOU HAVE LOST THE POINT of competition. If know that u only go to get a few discs, then stay home and use that 30$ to buy new plastic and you won't have to worry about it. If not come play and see if you can win it back. It's a gamble for everybody. Do u hear much about open players who pay triple the entry fees and get NO pyers pak? Almost half of therm will walk away with nothing to show for it other than a good time and a rating. Have respect for the game and those that work very hard to bring such good events to all with no benefit to themself.


If what you worry about is competition, then YOU'VE lost the point of disc golf.
"I'm so tough I wipe my ass with sandpaper."
bergdawg
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Ames

Postby Ferch » Tue May 10, 2011 11:47 am

I enjoy player's packs just as much as the next dger, but it is about the keepsakes for me. I can't stand Rocs, but I have five or six from tournaments with stamps to remind me of the good or bad times at that tourney. I BUY WHAT I WANT. I have a daily Stl open reminder every day when i look at my key chain with a bottle opener on it, lol...ah...The Passage, love that course.
Living for flight. One day at a time.
Ferch
 
Posts: 541
Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 10:04 am
Location: DSM

Postby Beerman » Tue May 10, 2011 11:48 am

GDL17921 wrote:
Beerman wrote:
GDL17921 wrote:what am I your Chucking secretary? :lol:


No you were promoted to Administrative Assistant.


well in that case

:lol:


notice the minimum retail value of player packs - I suspect generally TD's will use that amount ($25 for A tiers) as the deduction amount. If you have 140 amateurs, the difference would've been $1540 if we would've done this ($25 less $14 we charged = $11/person difference times 140 players = $1540).....that adds up quickly and drastically affects payout.

Bergdog, I'm not trying to pat ourselves on the back like it appears you're insinuating, I'm trying to show people that haven't run events how the math plays out - and how player packs are valued with relation to entries can affect payouts.


I wasnt referring to players packs. I was asking about added cash. Say there is $500 added to a c-tier can the td put 400 in the am side and 100 in the pro side. According to the document attached a c tier only has to payout 85% and the pdga doesnt even require added cash to a c-tier.
User avatar
Beerman
 
Posts: 1174
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:12 am
Location: des moines

Postby bergdawg » Tue May 10, 2011 11:53 am

Bergdog, I'm not trying to pat ourselves on the back like it appears you're insinuating, I'm trying to show people that haven't run events how the math plays out - and how player packs are valued with relation to entries can affect payouts.


Wasn't insinuating anything. I think you guys do a great job.
"I'm so tough I wipe my ass with sandpaper."
bergdawg
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Ames

Postby Single L » Tue May 10, 2011 11:56 am

bergdawg wrote:If what you worry about is competition, then YOU'VE lost the point of disc golf.


Yes disc golf is a sport/game and as such is only a "physical activity engaged in for pleasure"

We are talking about Tournaments which is "a series of games or contests that make up a single unit of competition"

A Competition first and foremost, the rest are just ancillary details.

If it were not about the competition than we wouldn't even be having this discussion and would we would only play rec rounds (or just rounds as they'd be the only type).
Last edited by Single L on Tue May 10, 2011 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I'm not impressed with aces of any kind. 95% of the time, they're just bad shots that got lucky and happened to hit the chains. Otherwise, they'd have sailed 50' past the hole." ~ Cydisc
User avatar
Single L
 
Posts: 5981
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Bushwhacking in DSM

Postby Abe Froman » Tue May 10, 2011 11:56 am

bergdawg wrote:
Abe Froman wrote:
bergdawg wrote:
Abe Froman wrote:
bergdawg wrote:
Abe Froman wrote:
bergdawg wrote:
Budhyzer 17696 wrote:
Abe Froman wrote: whiny bitch ass crybabies that complain about the free stuff they just got. Be thankful for getting anything in the first place people.


^^^^^^ This

I'm with ya Abe, Steve put a lot of extra CTP stuff in at the WBO and people were crying they didn't want this or that, just pissed me off. The free stuff was numbered and whatever number you picked was what you got; maybe that was the problem. After a while I kept saying, "if you don't want it, we'll give it to someone who does and appreciates it!" Spoiled little brats thinking they should get something just for showing up?



They probably want something for the money they spent on the entry fee, gas, food and other expenses, not just showing up.


They probably should play better then. This isn't 3rd grade science fair where everybody gets a ribbon. There are winners and there are non-winners. If your only concern is "what can I get out of it that's worth $ value" and not what I can gain in experience and enjoying others hard work so you have a good time. Then you have lost the point of competition amongst friends and good people. Nobody should be rewarded for just showing up. It should be considered a gesture of gratitude, not a given that's expected. That's like bitching out your grandma @ xmas for getting you the wrong G.I. Joe. My parents would slap the shit out of me if I complained about a gift.


Did it cost you thirty bucks to get into your grandma's xmas party? Fact of the matter is some people aren't good enough to ever cash. Would you want to keep dumping money into something and never see anything from it? It's just keeping the lower half of the divisions from playing tournaments. That competition and comradery you speak of can be found at a local league for 5 dollars.


Fact of the matter is, if you only play tournies to get free merch you're better off spending that 30$ on new plastic instead of wasting your weekends crying about player paks. Until you organize and facilitate a tourney or 50 you have no creedence to your argument. Please bust your ass for weeks preparing to HOST 100+ people just to hear some am or INt player bitch about their free stuff not being cool enough. It sets me off to no end. Move down if the gettin's not good enough for ya


Players packs are incentive for the Am's that know they may not cash to play.

It's getting really old whenever anyone says anything about a tournament to hear the "why don't you try to run an event." Yes, I know it's hard work and time consuming, but that doesn't mean someone can't voice their opinion, good or bad.

Why is it always bad then?you would re-think that after doing a few...

I agree with the incentive thing. But again, if u depend on a players pack to determine your personal value to attend a tourny then YOU HAVE LOST THE POINT of competition. If know that u only go to get a few discs, then stay home and use that 30$ to buy new plastic and you won't have to worry about it. If not come play and see if you can win it back. It's a gamble for everybody. Do u hear much about open players who pay triple the entry fees and get NO pyers pak? Almost half of therm will walk away with nothing to show for it other than a good time and a rating. Have respect for the game and those that work very hard to bring such good events to all with no benefit to themself.


If what you worry about is competition, then YOU'VE lost the point of disc golf.


Um, that's what the literal definition of a tournament is, genius. Competiton amongst your peirs to determine.a winner. Not "what cool stuff can I get for free since I won't place" again, if all u care about is your free crap then stay home. Many people work very hard to YOU can have a good time. Not so u can bitch about ur INT entry fee and players pak. Move down ore don't come. You have no argument,

You get what you get and you don't throw a fit.

This is what I tell my 5yr old. And she even understands the concept. GROW UP
User avatar
Abe Froman
 
Posts: 3239
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:42 am
Location: legion park is my backyard

Postby bergdawg » Tue May 10, 2011 11:59 am

Single L wrote:
bergdawg wrote:If what you worry about is competition, then YOU'VE lost the point of disc golf.


Yes disc golf is a sport/game and as such is only a "physical activity engaged in for pleasure"

We are talking about Tournaments which is "a series of games or contests that make up a single unit of competition"

A Competition first and foremost, the rest are just ancillary details.


People play tournaments for different reasons. You can't say a guy that knows he's going to finish last in the rec division is stoked about what a shootout it will be between him and second to last. The guy that plays "blood and guts" dg is usually the guy no one wants to be on a card with.
"I'm so tough I wipe my ass with sandpaper."
bergdawg
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Ames

Postby Single L » Tue May 10, 2011 12:03 pm

Beerman wrote:I wasnt referring to players packs. I was asking about added cash. Say there is $500 added to a c-tier can the td put 400 in the am side and 100 in the pro side. According to the document attached a c tier only has to payout 85% and the pdga doesnt even require added cash to a c-tier.


Yes this can be done. Nothing wrong with it at all. However you will eventually have no pro field or a lot of baggers, which could force one to run an AM only event. It all depends on what type of crowd you want to cater to. I actually thing when some of these events raise a tone of money simply for the pro purse that a piece should be dumped into the Am's if we are to continue with our current structure.
"I'm not impressed with aces of any kind. 95% of the time, they're just bad shots that got lucky and happened to hit the chains. Otherwise, they'd have sailed 50' past the hole." ~ Cydisc
User avatar
Single L
 
Posts: 5981
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Bushwhacking in DSM

Postby bergdawg » Tue May 10, 2011 12:09 pm

Um, that's what the literal definition of a tournament is, genius. Competiton amongst your peirs to determine.a winner. Not "what cool stuff can I get for free since I won't place" again, if all u care about is your free crap then stay home. Many people work very hard to YOU can have a good time. Not so u can bitch about ur INT entry fee and players pak. Move down ore don't come. You have no argument,

You get what you get and you don't throw a fit.

This is what I tell my 5yr old. And she even understands the concept. GROW UP


First of all, no idea how peirs are suppose to compete. You remind me of the dude off Caddyshack, "you'll get nothing and like it!" If you don't want the people who don't ever cash to get anything, they won't play. You think disc golf is in a position to start turning players away because they suck? Look at the bigger picture and quit being an elitist douchbag. If you want the kind of competition that you need so bad, play Open. Lastly, I told you I don't care about players packs, but I can see why some people do. So, quit saying that that's all I care about, and I don't play int.
Last edited by bergdawg on Tue May 10, 2011 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I'm so tough I wipe my ass with sandpaper."
bergdawg
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Ames

Postby bergdawg » Tue May 10, 2011 12:14 pm

Single L wrote:
bergdawg wrote:People play tournaments for different reasons. You can't say a guy that knows he's going to finish last in the rec division is stoked about what a shootout it will be between him and second to last. The guy that plays "blood and guts" dg is usually the guy no one wants to be on a card with.


Really, I'm pretty sure I can. If a rec player enters a tournament I'm pretty sure the reason was to see where his game is comparatively speaking.

I don't think too many rec players pay money just to hang out with new people; if they want to do that they'd just drive down the road to a different course or town and do that for free.


So, he needs to see how he's doing comparatively every weekend? I'm sure I can go to PDGA.com and look up results and find people who never cash but play weekend after weekend.
"I'm so tough I wipe my ass with sandpaper."
bergdawg
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Ames

Postby Single L » Tue May 10, 2011 12:20 pm

bergdawg wrote:If you don't want the people who don't ever cash to get anything, they won't play. You think disc golf is in a position to start turning players away because they suck? Look at the bigger picture and quit being an elitist douchbag.


Ideologically you are talking about two different types of events.

What types of tournaments are geared towards the elite players? NT, A, & B Tiers

What Types of tournaments require players packs? You guessed it A & B Tiers

What types of tournaments are geared towards new players and growing the sport? C Tiers, trophy only and non-sanctioned events

What tournaments are run on a local level with no to little budget? You guessed it again C Tiers, trophy only, and non-sanctioned events.


If you get a players pack or some sort of freebie at a C-Tier, Trophy only, or non-sanctioned event that means the TD went above and beyond and therefore should be offered gratitude not criticism regardless of what you are getting.
Last edited by Single L on Tue May 10, 2011 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I'm not impressed with aces of any kind. 95% of the time, they're just bad shots that got lucky and happened to hit the chains. Otherwise, they'd have sailed 50' past the hole." ~ Cydisc
User avatar
Single L
 
Posts: 5981
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Bushwhacking in DSM

Postby Abe Froman » Tue May 10, 2011 12:21 pm

bergdawg wrote:
Single L wrote:
bergdawg wrote:People play tournaments for different reasons. You can't say a guy that knows he's going to finish last in the rec division is stoked about what a shootout it will be between him and second to last. The guy that plays "blood and guts" dg is usually the guy no one wants to be on a card with.


Really, I'm pretty sure I can. If a rec player enters a tournament I'm pretty sure the reason was to see where his game is comparatively speaking.

I don't think too many rec players pay money just to hang out with new people; if they want to do that they'd just drive down the road to a different course or town and do that for free.


So, he needs to see how he's doing comparatively every weekend? I'm sure I can go to PDGA.com and look up results and find people who never cash but play weekend after weekend.


Your arguments are shit,

Practice more, play down a level, or don't come if all you want is a players pack.

Ask all the open donators thay pay out the ass every week just to hope they can cash a lil. Most don't every week. They just play harder the next week.

You are the reason most td's don't even do a players pack unless they are required to do so. Too much wasted effort to make somebody happy that will just fimd a way to bitch anyways. Please organize an A tier, and I will come see how well it's ran..
User avatar
Abe Froman
 
Posts: 3239
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:42 am
Location: legion park is my backyard

Postby Single L » Tue May 10, 2011 12:23 pm

bergdawg wrote:
Single L wrote:
bergdawg wrote:People play tournaments for different reasons. You can't say a guy that knows he's going to finish last in the rec division is stoked about what a shootout it will be between him and second to last. The guy that plays "blood and guts" dg is usually the guy no one wants to be on a card with.


Really, I'm pretty sure I can. If a rec player enters a tournament I'm pretty sure the reason was to see where his game is comparatively speaking.

I don't think too many rec players pay money just to hang out with new people; if they want to do that they'd just drive down the road to a different course or town and do that for free.


So, he needs to see how he's doing comparatively every weekend? I'm sure I can go to PDGA.com and look up results and find people who never cash but play weekend after weekend.


That's their choice, no one is forcing them to sign up for these competitions.

Jeebus it's like talking to a wall around hear ....... I'm done
"I'm not impressed with aces of any kind. 95% of the time, they're just bad shots that got lucky and happened to hit the chains. Otherwise, they'd have sailed 50' past the hole." ~ Cydisc
User avatar
Single L
 
Posts: 5981
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:02 pm
Location: Bushwhacking in DSM

Postby Budhyzer 17696 » Tue May 10, 2011 12:25 pm

bergdawg wrote:
Budhyzer 17696 wrote:
Abe Froman wrote: whiny bitch ass crybabies that complain about the free stuff they just got. Be thankful for getting anything in the first place people.


^^^^^^ This

I'm with ya Abe, Steve put a lot of extra CTP stuff in at the WBO and people were crying they didn't want this or that, just pissed me off. The free stuff was numbered and whatever number you picked was what you got; maybe that was the problem. After a while I kept saying, "if you don't want it, we'll give it to someone who does and appreciates it!" Spoiled little brats thinking they should get something just for showing up?


They probably want something for the money they spent on the entry fee, gas, food and other expenses, not just showing up.


They did get something, the chance to win something. It's a tournament, not a giveaway. I play mostly rec rounds and do not enter tournaments often. But when I do, I know I need to kick some ass to win something. I do not expect to get something for showing up. If I get some free stuff, I appreciate it.
User avatar
Budhyzer 17696
 
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:21 am
Location: Wildcat Bluff (When not in CR)

PreviousNext

Return to National Tournaments

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest