Greater Peoria Open, June 19-20- A-Tier

Tournaments in the rest of the non Iowa world

Postby The Donator » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:53 pm

AO wrote: I also heard the first round that Brad missed a putt, laid down by the basket, and did not move.

ROFLMAO....Heeren used to do that ALL the time
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Postby irban » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:56 pm

GDL5000 wrote:6 targets that shouldn't be used in any ratings based competition.

Jeez, what were they? Cones or something?
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Postby Single L » Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:00 pm

AO wrote:I'm interested to see where this dude is at in 2 years.

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Postby Dana » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:44 pm

Those baskets are probably 20+ years old, not sure what exactly they are.

Lauren Lakeberg was taking pictures and she got a whole set from my putt on 20 that spit from about 12 ft. It is pretty freaking hilarious. Shows me tapping it in, then disc in the basket, then disc on the ground, me to my knees and then finally my arms in the air. I was a little salty, especially since the dang basket was leaning over on top of being a piece of garbage.

I'm curious why no one watching (including the TD) did not call him on throwing his disc in the air. I missed the whole thing up until him slapping the chains and Bennet giving him a courtesy violation. I'm also wondering why no one called Cory Hill, the official that gave him the warning.

I've already emailed Gentry about the many problems of the tournament, including the Bradley/Geoff stuff.
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Postby gpdigity » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:11 pm

AO wrote:
gpdigity wrote:*
it definetly appears that it needs to be mentioned on here that Geoff didnt concuct himself the way he should of..
it is to my understanding that geoff threw the trophy down at the ceremony and threw his own little fit afterwards.


How would you know any of this if you were not there? And if Dave took Bradley's word for what happened....he is foolish. Brad acted like an idiot and I thought Geoff handled the situation pretty well. I was there for Geoff's speech and did not see him throw the trophy. I think Geoff had the right to be upset. I did not stay for Brad's. He deserved nobody's attention. I also heard the first round that Brad missed a putt, laid down by the basket, and did not move. I'm interested to see where this dude is at in 2 years.




your right AO i wasnt there and saw nothing and was going i guess by what dave said which is info im sure he recieved from Brad.

info in which im sure brad said what ever he could to make himself look good to his sponsor.

it sounded like
all brad told dave was that he was getting pist at a bunch of spit outs and that he kept dropping f bombs and people were making a big deal out of his swearing.

and then im sure brad talked a bunch about geoff and all the things he did which many may have been fabricated.

should kept my 3rd string info prob to myself i guess.
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Postby Sniper26 » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:28 am

I am more than willing to throw my name on a protest to the PDGA. I might not be the greatest player or an official (for personal reasons) but I have been in the game for a long time and assisted and ran as many or more tournaments as almost anyone. I witnessed Geoff quietly tell the scorekeeper "one more F bomb and he is getting stroked" after cry baby shit pants (Brad) threw his drive on 11 and yelled the F word. I have no idea what was said between them, but she did pull him off to the side and put him on notice that the guys on his card were not happy with his tantrums. I don't know if the word "warning" has to be spoken, but this is not a court of law. I rejoined the group on 12's tee-pad and was instantly pissed off at his poor tact as he loudly paced back and forth off the left side of the pad while the other 3 members of the top card teed off. I remember thinking to myself that I should have said something to him but it was not my place and if his competitors thought it was as big of a deal as I did they would say something. I left the group after that hole and decided to follow AO's group because I couldn't bite my tongue any longer.

I feel that I owe Geoff, Rob, and Dana an apology for never following through with becoming an official because I did not want to get stuck with running a sanctioned event or a pool in the QC because I was an official. Had I been and official sitting there I would have followed through and warned him myself but I felt I did not have a leg to stand on without a officials card. If anyone knows how to pass this message on to them I would appreciate it. Sorry I let the integrity of our sport down.

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Postby jlowekc » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:30 am

http://www.pdga.com/rules/80101-courtesy
801.01

G. A player violating a courtesy rule may be warned by any
affected player, even if from another group, or by an official, with
all players of the group advised of the warning. The player shall be
assessed one penalty throw for each subsequent courtesy violation of
any type in the same round. Repeated violations of courtesy rules may
result in disqualification in accordance with section 804.05.

Now I am not sure if you were just watching at this point, but it is important to remember you don't always have to be on the card to call a courtesy. I know that I have been close to calling people on other cards for loud outbursts, but then I remember that I am a loud outburst, so I generally keep my mouth shut..... :oops:
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Postby Like_Water » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:09 am

Nikko gets them from other cards more than his own.
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Postby z-man » Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:45 am

I know I should let the legend of B. Williams fade away...but I have to mention this as I just remembered a conversation I had with him...

During one of my rounds with the aforementioned...I asked him what it felt like to go into sudden death Mano a Mano against a 12 time world champ in an NT event...he said he couldn't have cared less...anddddddd...that was his answer...nothing more...

I was half expecting an "it was intense", "it was something I'll never forget", "i threw a shitty drive and lost on the first hole but it was a great achievement none-the-less", etc....but his response was that he didn't care...

Which leads me to my point about this guy just being another self-entitled touring pro who thinks nothing of anyone but himself...I should also mention he was dropping F-bombs all over the place out here too
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Postby GDL17921 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:40 am

the legend continues.....almost...Last night I almost had an experience that I wouldn't have ever forgotten, given the discussion this week, if a few twists of fate had happened a little differently.

George Smith texted me about 3PM yesterday asking if I wanted to play a round at Walnut Ridge. He was traveLLing to the Majestic. I quickly agreed, as I rarely get to play a casual round with the guy I used to slap around the pool hall 15 years ago, and who subsequently got me hooked on this crazy sport.

Anyway, George shows up, alone at Walnut fashionably late around 5:20 and we begin catching up, I was eager to hear about his recent adventure to Japan for the Open. Somewhere in our conversation the discussion of the GPO came up, and I asked if he'd heard about who the newest tool on tour was yet. He had no idea of the incidents we've been talking about on here yet....So I tell him the name Bradley Williams and I visibly noticed his eyes about pop out of his head.

Apparently yesterday morning McCormack had called and left George a message asking if he could bring this toolbag to Columbia so he could ride up to the Majestic with George because Nikko had left him.... :lol:

George didn't return the call, as he was on his way out of town, didn't know the guy, and was staying with some old friends up in Minneapolis that he didn't feel comfortable bringing a friend to, because he hadn't mentioned it. Those were his reasons.....those alone...

He told me otherwise, he probably would have been with him. Dude, I don't know what I would've done if George showed up at Walnut last night with Bradley.....that would've been some funny/weird shit.
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Postby z-man » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:07 am

That's just crazy...luck was on both of your sides and especially for George...
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Brad Williams

Postby davidmac » Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:25 pm

So I don't usually have the time to follow all the discussions and post replies, but too many people have called, text or emailed me about Brad Williams action at the Peoria event.

I'm not here to defend Brads action as I'm sure most of what is said is true.
Sponsoring Disc golfers and trying t o make sure you get the value out of the sponsorship is a very difficult part of my job.

You meet a young man who seems nice enough and enthusiastic enough to start a business relationship with so you start slow and take it one step at a time. We hand a guy or ship out a box of discs and wait patiently to see what happens.
The biggest piece of advice I have received about business is you date someone before you marry them, you dont jump right into anything permanent.
Brad has received a stack of discs and I've helped him get to and into a few events, he doesn’t even have a shirt with a Gateway Logo on it yet.
So the sponsorship deal is far from INKED!
Over the last 6 weeks Brads worked at the shop, stayed at my house and we have played a few rounds and went out on the town a few times.
Brads helped entertain my nephews and cousins and from all personal accounts seems like a decent young man. Like most young man they still need direction and can use positive role models in their lives.
We are all far from prefect and Brad is no exception to say the least.

The thing is with Athletes and those into serious competition you can never know what may happen in the heat of the competition.
Yes Brad is cocky and like most people who lay their skills on the line against the very best , expect a lot from themselves.

I did initially get the Story from Brad and of course I knew there was much more to the story, after all there are 3 sides to every story.
I have spoken with several people who were at the event and have been trying to do more research on to exactly what took place.
Even today I received another report stating Brads inappropriate behavior towards the crowd and another report stating the crowd was actually ridiculing his shots. I do find it odd that the event directors allowed an open discussion about the rules with the gallery.

Trust me when I say no one really wants the job of trying to corral a bunch of Frisbee dudes gambling for each others money in the woods.
Its too time consuming and takes away a lot of my energy, making it hard to want to sponsor players.
If you notice we removed our sponsored player pages from our site Months ago. Not because of any one particular incident but because of the whole concept. Theres really no "sponsored team" its a bunch of individuals out there playing against each other with little or no officiating.
We do sponsor lots of players and clubs allover the country who are doing great things for Gateway and will continue to support those who want to be part of our family.

Unfortunately, not every sponsorship turns out for the best.
I could go on and on (like I did with the gentleman who called me last Monday) about the calls I’ve received over the years about players we have sponsored.
The list of players who I have received negative calls with a myriad of complaints about is long and they do include some heavy hitters of our sport, Ron Russell, Brad Hammock, Mike Olse, Dave Feldberg, Geoff Bennett, John E McCray and of course Nikko ( who by the way appears to be maturing a bit with age, but I'm guessing could still get a courtesy violation handed out at every single event if someone wanted to).
The additional list of past sponsored guys who I have had to answer complaints about in the past goes on and on, but typically its mostly the same stories, of kicked bags, cussing, complaining about courses, TD's, Baskets! People just tend to call a lot more the better the players are and the more money they win.
Once a player gets sponsored by any company they kind of become targets. Players who are looking for sponsorship support should be held to a higher standard and for the most part have been.
Sometimes it seems as though Gateway sponsored players take a little more heat the other guys, but that’s the price you have to pay when you’re the underdog.

When a real pro athlete gets caught doing something wrong does the city stop routing for the entire team?

Are people not buying Nike gear because Tiger drops F bombs and cheats on his wife with blond bombs?

Most baseball and football players are actually cheating by using steroids, yet no one seems to mind. If they did attendance wouldn't be at an all time high. I'm not sure how many of you have been to hockey games, soccer basketball games and football games and sat close enough to hear the players cuss at each other.
Competition at the highest level of any sport is stress full and I know why disc golf needs to be held to a higher standard, but do we really have the resources to clean up our sport in all the ways it needs to be cleaned up?
I'm not a big fan of sweeping real problems under the rug, but there a certain amount of dont ask don tell that may need to take place until we have those resources in place.

Disc golf has been controversial from the start with lots of law suits over discs and baskets. It seems the 2 big companies have never wanted to work with each other and theres lots of animosity and resistance when any new company tries to get up and going.

Luckily for the game and especially the new disc golf companies over 80% of the people who play and love disc golf don't play in competition.
When asked why they don't come out, most say its because of all the fighting and BS that takes place among club members.
This sport really needs to step back and take a look at why we are not any larger after 35 years.


Brad is certainly not the first and won’t be the last player that is sponsored by Gateway Or any Company that will have his sponsor called, text and emailed after acting inappropriately at an event.
I am investigating the situation and will do what is necessary to make sure one guy or a few incidents doesn't bring such a negative impact on our company, even if it means to discontinue the sponsorship.

There are some flaws in the rules for pdga play when it comes to players behavior that can be helped with more trained officials, We would probably need to have one on each hole maybe 2.
We all know that officials on every hole is not going to happen anytime soon (probably not for at least 20more years) and only officiating the top card and not the second and third card is a little unfair as well.
I'm guessing that guys on the last card are dropping F bombs and kicking their bags, but to call a courtesy Violation on a player on the last card is kind of like kicking a guy when he’s down.
Where do we draw the line and what should the penalty really be?


A local disc golfer and past professional ball golfer and I have been discussing this situation and comparing it to how it would have been handled in ball golf. He stated that he started playing ball golf at 6 and played all the way through High school and college, then on to amateur tournament play and several years on a pro tour.
Over his lifetime of serious golf competition players have been dropping F bombs, kicking their bags and breaking clubs, but not one single occasion was a player assessed a penalty stroke. NOT one time!
Apparently on the PGA tour, players are fined, but not stroked.
Maybe fining players will put an end to this problem or help curb it at least.

Personally (as a past top player in this sport) I don't think a player should lose a tournament for cussing or slapping the chains or laying on the ground. He can certainly be suspended from entering future events after a review, but this decision can not be left up to his competitors.
After more thought maybe suspending a player for a few events for his inappropriate actions may be one of the best solutions.


When I'm faced with a problem I look for a temporary fix AND eventually a permanent solution, its easy enough to NOT sponsor Brad and try and do a better job selecting potential new sponsored players in the future, but I dont think this will make the problem for the sport go away.
I could make the problem go away for me pretty easy,,, by NOT sponsoring players, but I like to help players when I can with disc, bags, jobs, places to stay, rides to events, even counseling and have been doing it for over 25 years. Almost all top players have stayed at my house at one time or another, sometimes for weeks and months at a time.
This sport still has a long way to go and the term professional disc golfer has been used rather loosely over the years.

Like any business decision if its not beneficial to the companies image or bottom line than the program (or in this case,,, player) gets axed.
I know a good representative (sponsored player) for our company can go along way in each community, but should one bad apple be able to spoil the whole damn bunch?
Trust me when I say I wish there was a quick solution to handling the attitudes and behavior problems on tour.
I also wish the pdga would work on more standardization for the tour when it comes to baskets, course layouts and staffing for the larger events.

I'm certainly not hear to defend Brad or any player who disrespects another player, the course, The local Club The Td or the PDGA.
Players should all be held accountable for their actions while at an event.
Athletes more than any other profession are also held responsible for their actions even off the course and field. It’s just the price you pay for fame.

Its quite unfortunate that people may hold an entire company responsible for the actions of one guy.
We try our best to help players, clubs, and events and grow the sport of disc golf, but sometimes there are hurdles to over come to move forward and I guess this is one of them.
What other may see as really harmful to Gateway I see as an opportunity to help the guide the sport for the future.


If anyone would like to share first hand knowledge of Brad’s actions at this or any other event feel free to send me an email at david@gdstour.com or call me on my cell 314 303 1488.


Thanks for your time,,,,David
Last edited by davidmac on Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby GDL17921 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:50 pm

David, for the record, I understand what you're saying and agree with your ideas regarding fines instead of losing the tournament over the actions.

Also, I'll never stop putting with the best putters on the market because your name is on a guy going through a growth spurt.
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Postby robizm » Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:26 pm

With such a long post and so many grammatical errors.....I stopped reading
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Re: Brad Williams

Postby GaW27166 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:45 pm

davidmac wrote:
When a real pro athlete gets caught doing something wrong does the city stop routing for the entire team?

They lose alot of respect for that person, at least more people than not.

Are people not buying Nike gear because Tiger drops F bombs and cheats on his wife with blond bombs?

Cheating on his wife has nothing to do with golf. Saying Chuck and yelling Chuck are 2 completly different things.

Most baseball and football players are actually cheating by using steroids, yet no one seems to mind. If they did attendance wouldn't be at an all time high. I'm not sure how many of you have been to hockey games, soccer basketball games and football games and sat close enough to hear the players cuss at each other.

What does any of that have to do with disc golf?

Competition at the highest level of any sport is stress full and I know why disc golf needs to be held to a higher standard, but do we really have the resources to clean up our sport in all the ways it needs to be cleaned up?
I'm not a big fan of sweeping real problems under the rug, but there a certain amount of dont ask don tell that may need to take place until we have those resources in place.

Stress happends to everyone and 90% of the people seem to have no problem controlling it. I throw bad shots more times than not and you dont see me yelling, screaming, kicking shit or acting like a child. I am so sick of the way some people act on the course.

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